Brexit mega thread part 12: David Cameron: Return of the King

[SerendipityJane]

(previous thread)

That's "king" as a suffix not a prefix. Also part of a phrase.

I don't know what you mean.

I don't know what you mean.

Weird - double post.

And Corbyn didn't get his party elected. So his manifestos are now litter tray liners. Brexiters meanwhile are in Government, and they of course never, ever cherry pick their experts to say what they want to hear.

Peregrina

I mentioned right-wing think tanks in my post as well;

Studies produced by left and right-wing think tanks on the same topic can both be right in parts and at the same time deliberately distorted.

Studies produced by left and right-wing think tanks on the same topic can both be right in parts and at the same time deliberately distorted.

There's a big difference between parties who aren't in power writing manifestos which will be soon forgotten when they lose an election and the party in power only taking the views of one side. They are supposed to govern for the good of the whole country, although the current Government appears to think that they are in Government to give bungs to their mates. The rest of us can go hang as far as they are concerned.

Peregrina
although the current Government appears to think that they are in Government to give bungs to their mates

As if the last Labour government didn't have their fair share of financial scandals.
How many Labour MPs from Gordon Brown's government were imprisoned for false accounting/fraud - five was it?

As for the goings-on with Nicola Sturgeon and her husband...
I seem to remember that Nicola was regarded as something of a saint on these threads not so long ago.

Fish and chips are rubbish these days.

The current government would put them in the House of Lords...

I was discussing UK election dates with a couple of people today.

I firmly believe that may will be left to Local Councils and PCCs - to get the protest votes out of the system
and then the General Election will be in October - to not clash with the US or the summer holidays
but be before winter fuel costs.

As for the result, still mulling.

I wouldn't be surprised if they held off for as long as they can so they can finish plundering the country before they're booted out...

I've never sought to 'pass myself off' as anything on this thread.

My views on Ireland, Ireland in the EU, NI, and the GFA, are not inspired by reference to 'historical grievances'. It's 2024, after all. And I have as many English and landowner ancestors as Irish non-landowner forbears in any case.

Facts are facts - after a shaky start, Ireland has managed to develop into a far bigger economy than almost anyone could habe imagined 70-100 years ago, mainly thanks to joining the EEC, so remaining in the EU is a no brainer. It's baffling that anyone could claim otherwise, yet there were prominent idiots with access to microphones or typewriters fully expecting Ireland to exit the EU too, back in 2016, and complaining loudly about Ireland's insistence that an international agreement (the GFA) be upheld and not thrown overboard because it interfered with an ideologically driven piece of nonsense that nobody - nobody - least of all those who had campaigned for it, had planned for nor understood its ramifications. Unbelievable.

Yet many of those looking on from the outside saw things far more clearly. Ireland, for one, but also the US.

It should be possible to recognise the fact that the GFA (conceived and brought to life with the assumption that NI would remain in the EU) brought relative peace and with it prosperity to NI, which had been wracked by 30 years of a horrible, dirty war up to 1996. The idea of reneging on the GFA - an idea bandied about by Gove and others - is unthinkable, and the vote to Remain in NI was in many respects a vote for the GFA and against the idea that it should be fed to the fishes. This is because there were (and still are) people in some parts of the UK who were capable of seeing reality.

In fact, in NI, voters abandoned their cultural, personal, and political bias and decided for themselves where their priorities lay - in this case, peace and prosperity. The majority for Remain revealed that a lot of unionists defied their parties in choosing how they would vote.

What a pity, given the very dubious quality of the oeuvre of think tanks, that certain organisations peopled by individuals with strong links to George Mason University seem to have played such a large part in the campaign for Brexit and the political direction(s) of Westminster ever since. Somebody should warn the government that the vulture capitalist and other think tanks of the Right, so often connected to massive piles of American capital, are not to be trusted.

Well said. And here's what the rest of the EU thinks about it;

@SerendipityJane It's satisfying to have my point made by an antagonist.

That seems to contradict an earlier post about there are many mathematical methods to seperate parallel events into their respective contributions to a recession.

This was raised on QT last night. The Austrian/British born in Germany guy, Juergen Maier, suggested the economies of both Germany and UK have been stagnated for 15 years. Some have said the Financial crash had long lasting impacts too.

@Clavinova

I remember the exact words of JRM were that it could be up to 50 years before the UK felt the full benefits of Brexit, but remain supporters prefer to change the words to:

There will be no brexit benefits for 50 years.

However, it is correct to say that JRM made his 50 years comment after the vote.

I remember the exact words of JRM were that it could be up to 50 years before the UK felt the full benefits of Brexit, but remain supporters prefer to change the words to:

The point being though that the benefits were not immediate, as at least some Brexiters had promised - Daniel Hannan for one. "Vote Leave to give your Grandchildren (maybe) a better life when they are grandparents themselves" is not exactly the snappiest message to tell the voters.

Here is a clip from QT with Juergen Maier explaining it a bit more

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1758262975943622702?s=20

Graham Stuart, "The UK has grown it's economy more than Germany since 2010.. Which country has grown more since Brexit? It's the UK"

Juergen Maier, "I can give you another set of years where Germany has grown more.. In terms of earning potential, average wages, productivity, it's way larger in Germany, and France, and even countries like Spain"

Germanys growth was exceptional 1933-1939

@DuncinToffee "I can give you another set of years where Germany has grown more..

So, why didn’t he quote the set of years on the programme at the time?

@Peregrina The point being though that the benefits were not immediate,

Other than not paying the EU membership fees, nothing could be immediate. Deals take time to negotiate.

Deals take time to negotiate.

For the supposedly easiest deals in history, 50 years is a pretty long stretch.

Navalny is dead.
The idiots in the GOP have allowed Putin to think there will be no repercussions.
Our politicians are so busy frothing over Richard Tice that they cannot see the real threats.

Anybody who expects price stability and political progress should put on a crash hat.

Because the programme wasn't about Germany's economy?

The UK is in recession but whatabout Germany isn't really the gotcha you think it is.

As an aside, I am amused that the Labour MP for Wellingborough is called "Gen Kitchen". Mainly because that is really going to mess up some amateur attempts to play the Google game by inserting subtle* posts slating Gen X. Or Y. Or Z. Or Generation rent.

I look forward to the UKs first candidate called "Cheap flights" - good luck to the media trying to slide stories about them into the interwebs ....