Brexit mega thread part 11: is fucktastrophy a word?

[mirages08]

Part 11 of this mega thread

Couldn't see a new one?

Hope you don't mind a newbie starting it!

Defending the country from any threat to its territorial integrity

I would almost agree. However he problem with that is that you need to have a notion of "community" to defend. And that takes us right back to the even more basic purpose of government, which is to protect the people (my emphasis). And frankly you don't protect people by fostering an environment where they lose their jobs, their houses, their health and their souls whilst you play Rule Britannia on your rhythm stick.

And protection is really a bare minimum. If you can advance and enhance, then why wouldn't you ?

These are fundamental clashes of political philosophy that arguably cut across mere party divides.

And it's a matter of history that the English government managed to fail it's citizens totally in 1066, when a completely foreign invasion was successful in usurping the accepted (and supported) government of the day. We are all of us, living under the yoke of an invader who took power by force. Just because they had names like "William", "John" and "Robert" doesn't really make it any better than had they been "Adolf", "Rudolph" and "Hermann".

That's an extremely narrow view of government responsibility.

Who, me or Louise ?

By my notion, "protecting the people" you also get the need to protect the people from their own leaders - something the US enshrined in their constitution. A limit to the power of absolute rules which we have in England.

@SerendipityJane Louise. I think we were writing our posts at the same time

Meanwhile I've just read that the EU told Australia (in the nicest possible way) to go fuck themselves over access to the EU beef markets "like wot Boris gave us".

Strangely I can't see that becoming a lead news story in the land of Oz.

The CPTPP deal, which is going to be signed soon, is likely to herald the return of battery-farmed eggs.

This is what happens when you yank the base level of protections offered by EU law away: the Brexit wreckers get to run riot with no restraints.

https://poultry.network/warning-over-battery-egg-imports-with-new-trade-deal/

Just have to pay careful attention to labelling. Until it becomes illegal.

You do indeed. In fact, rather you arrive rapidly at the need to ensure that the nation can sustain itself and design make and if necessary mass produce whatever materiel it needs (in peacetime) to counter/neutralise any threat. I suggest just 2 countries are capable of doing that, the USA and China.

Personally I think that requires pubic ownership of (or at least a very large public stake in) all sorts of things, transport networks, defence companies, water, power, communications, to name but a few. However, that's absolutely not the same thing as state ownership IMO.

You do realise that this country has not been self sufficient in food for over 150 years don't you?

Membership of the EU gave us that food security because there would always be somewhere to source things from. You and your government have wrecked that.

You really should take you head out of your arse...

Quite telling that for Louise government is about protecting land and house prices, whereas for others it's about people.

I think I have just been out-misanthroped.

You've lost me there Jane I'm afraid. Where did I say something about protecting house prices? Protecting people and the country is absolutely where it's at for me.

They have made a desert and called it a peace.

No responsibility for ensuring an orderly economy?

When have you ever seen a Brexshiteer take responsibility for a single effing thing?

And this is what Brexshit has done to the quality of our MPs...

Yes I do realise that about food. That's a failure as well. Given who we've fought wars against for how ever many 1000s of years I'd be more inclined to trust just about any other nation on the globe in preference to any EU member states to be a source of food for Britian in war time extremis. That's Europe's history, if you deny it you're being dishonest with yourself.

Again Jane you're going to need to explain your latest comment to me. I'm assuming you mean that in advocating for Brexit I undermine my claim to be about protecting people. That's nonsense.

Why indeed? You're correct of course. So, why is it cheaper to build elsewhere and export to the UK? The response to that should be that the incentives to build here should be so good that no competitor factory is comparable.

The other answer of course is that it's about how much workers at Luton are paid and the consequences of this are:

a) that I'd defend to the last the right of those workers representatives to see the best conditions they can...but unfortunately (for said workers) that leads to

b) super expensive workers with no jobs becuse GM doesn't want to build vans there, because they can build them for less elsewhere...Pretty obvious who's at fault there then!

>So, why is it cheaper to build elsewhere and export to the UK?

Stop being so insular. Building in the UK will never again be better for a corp than building in the EU - it's all about the market.

Louise, I know you're a Brexshiteer, and therefore don't do joined up thinking, but we didn't have major food shortages until, checks notes the last couple of years (and wait until the phyto sanitary rules are brought in in November), so blaming the EU after they've been keeping us fed for the last 40 years is a bit fucking stupid.

Yes, I support workers in Luton, but unfortunately, you and this Brexshit government have sold them down the line by making sure that their product is no longer competitive by inflicting sanctions on ourselves.

It really isn't rocket surgery, but the fact that you refuse to see it tells us something about your intellect...

That's how industry and manufacturing works. And has worked for decades. Are you unfamiliar with the JIT system in our economy?

I take it you've never worked in a factory or warehouse @LouiseCollins28?

You have lower expectations of government @LouiseCollins28. However, even your low expectations are not met by this disastrous, fuckwitted Tory party.

Time to put them in the bin. And they're lucky that's all that happens to them.

I would suggest brexshitters read a fucking history book occasionally (ok, I'm biased as a historian) but pick up any history book and it becomes very clear very quickly that isolationism is a BAD idea - especially with war on the European continent!!
(And despite their utter horror, we are ALL Europeans as we live on the European continent...)
Sigh.

(Although it's possible that some brexshitters don't believe in tectonic plate theory....)

I would suggest brexshitters read a fucking history book occasionally

As long as it has pictures.

the damage continues

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-politics-2023-7-sunak-and-von-der-leyen-fail-to-agree-horizon-europe-deal/