to still be angry about Brexit?

[mrsmootoo]

I've mentioned this before and got shot down - 'move on', 'we won, you lost', 'red wall was justified', 'democracy' (although as Brexiter David Davis said, democracies can change their minds) etc etc. Anyway, if anything I am even more angry now than in 2016! Seeing queues at Dover/airports etc (I know not only down to Brexit, but it makes it worse) just reinforced it. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here, but am just interested in whether other people are still as furious as I am. (And I do know it's not doing my stress levels any good!)

Because there are none.

I haven’t got another 50 years.

Our population stats show that we have gained many many millions of people - we could not continue indefinitely to have an open door policy.

The schools are full, the hospitals are full, the roads particularly in the south are full, we can’t build houses quick enough to house everyone. For a small country the infrastructure was not designed and can not manage influx of those levels year after year no matter how convenient it is to have plumbers and cleaners on tap driving down wages and creating huge profits for big business.

The tens of thousands of (pointless) laws and diktats from the EU we were forced to comply with no recourse.

For me it was the back room deals, the lack of transparency and accountability at the top of the EU I really couldn’t live with. People point out we have MEPs I never even known the name of ours much less what she/he was doing for our country. It was just one long expenses paid gravy train is how our diplomat friend put it, with opaque systems to keep everything and everyone in their place - and totally voiceless.

The EU is not remotely democratic and Ursula reminds me of that every time I see her. A failed German politician that even the Germans couldn’t believe was appointed as EU president!! She was being investigated for fraud but that conveniently disappeared.

The EU was a wonderful idea post war - the purity and intention of its founding fathers/mothers was based on good will and intention, but is not needed now - our biggest threats are not from within the EU but the outside, and it has since been corrupted and eroded politically and financially.

I am so glad we left. Yes it might take a while to feel the benefits but we have reclaimed our independence and decision making again. It is on all of us now to make the most of it.

'If we were to rejoin the EU, what particular freedom that you have enjoyed because of Brexit would you miss the most?'

Please could someone who still supports Brexit answer this?

I know of many Leavers, who regret their vote. Some of them have been royally screwed by Brexit - mind you I live in quite a farming area. I think the tide has turned in terms of the numbers who think it is a good thing, but it's all a bit late now. So much damage has been done, and it's hard for most ordinary people to see any benefits to their lives at all. I have some sympathy with those who voted Leave in 2016, as the propaganda machine was so slick and so well-financed, but the 2019 voters have a hell of a lot to answer for. Johnson's mettle was very well known, and the downsides were already very apparent. And why more people didn't stop to think that anything promoted by Trump and Putin should be treated with extreme caution is beyond me.

Also suggesting that people should just shut up and get on with it is ridiculous. New effects come to light each day - nobody is going to be getting over it any time soon, sadly, because it's having too big an impact of everyone's lives.

For me it was the back room deals, the lack of transparency and accountability at the top of the EU I really couldn’t live with

Yeah, thank god cronyism, backroom deals and a lack of transparency are no longer issues in british politics.

Do you actually read back what you write?

@catgirl85 which sector are you in? Genuinely interested and also glad at least someone's wages have gone up

I'm angry that Cameron called the referendum to quell the back benches. I'm angry that so few people felt invested in the status quo they voted leave. I'm cross that we have a voting system which means it became the unintentional lightning rod for a protest vote of those who felt unheard. I'm cross that the political class and the media festered in remain enclaves so that it was too late for lazy remain politicians to pull their finger out and put any real effort into making their case when it was clear Leave was gathering momentum. Mostly I'm fucking furious at every bastarding politician who used the EU over the last thirty years as a distraction for their own fucking incompetence or to obscure accountability for their own decisions that pissed off the electorate.

But I haven't got the energy hold a grudge against half the population who walk past me everyday and regard them as people living on some entirely different and unpleasant circle on a Venn diagram. What a fucking waste of my own life that would be.

I'm fine with it too. Certainly not raging. That can't be good for you. Have you sought counselling?

I'm still both angry and depressed about Brexit.

But migration hasn’t gone down.
We now have people from Indonesia picking fruit here rather than people from The EU.

Your suspicions are incorrect. The EU has an appalling record on immigration.

Freedom of movement within the EU did not prevent Fortress Europe. Perhaps a racist prefers Freedom of movement within the EU. because it prevents wider immigration from beyond the EU.

Thus the smug stupidity of Billy Bragg’s statement.

Right. How about people with terminal illness? Should they not be allowed to vote?

I'm furious and don't see how that can change, Brexit isn't going to get any better! Anyone who is ok with it really doesn't understand that this is just the beginning, it's going to get much, much worse.

And anyone who was unaware of European elections in the UK and the fact that they had a right to vote in an MEP is beyond the pale.
If you thought the EU was operating so badly why didn't you find out how you were represented and vote and take it up with your democratically elected MEPs?
When I lived in Ireland everybody knew about the European elections and people voted and took responsibility for their vote. How do people imagine our MEPs arrived in the European Parliament - do you really think that the likes of Barnier, Tusk and van der Leyen were begging for the honour of having bloody Nigel Farage and his ilk sent over to them? FFS.

I think that went over some people's heads!

Me too. We've lost so much.

I don’t agree with the legislation that allows foreign crooks to stay in this country

No one can actually answer what they miss so much about the EU membership and that is precisely why we are here today.

it is an expensive mirage and feeling of belonging and benefits that do not actually exist.

Many of the EE went back to Poland not because of brexit but because Poland are desperate to get them back and support their economy/ageing population and have offered fantastic financial incentives to do so. Don’t let the truth stand in the way.

I feel I should leave this thread - it’s not intended to be a respectful exchange of views just a steaming rant.

And this is why socretes or was it aristotle believed that there were problems with democracy.

Democracy is not perfection.

I'm not anti democratic though.

I feel I should leave this thread - it’s not intended to be a respectful exchange of views just a steaming rant.

You'e written the longest rants on this thread.

It still annoys me and puzzles me why and how it happened.

But as I tell myself, every time there's a report on the news about some Brexit related screw up: 'it's what they voted for, it's what they've got themselves into'.

A massive percentage of those people queuing up in Dover will have voted for the 'freedom' to have their BLUE passports stamped at the border.

The people moaning about rising food costs at the supermarket because we have fruit rotting in the fields, they voted for that.

And all those £££ on the side of the bus that's helping to make our NHS the world beating success that it is, they voted for that... Oops no, didn't happen, did it?

Hope they think of that while they sit on the phone trying to get a doctor's appointment or try to get treatment at a hospital.

They should be happy though. It's what they voted for.

@JosephineGH as you obviously agree with this shitshow - then no I don't think your views count as much - as your families options haven't been limited. We have just come back from Copenhagen- we moved there in the withdrawal period but the Danes now have rules that make it a total pain in the arse to stay unless you work for a Danish company and you have to have xyz amount in the bank. (And it's not small) - the criteria for non EU to live and work is very tight --unless a refugee . Brexit also has made our business far more complicated and reduced margins significantly as it's killed direct mail order to EU due to taxes and costs. You and your family may well be fine because it hasn't affected 'your' circumstances- it's caused untold damage to other peoples businesses and living arrangements when not dual nationality- as these businesses and living circumstances were built up on the premise of being in the EU and the flexibility that offered.

Nobody's asking you to put anyone's needs above your own. Where have I said that?
And nothing you describe about your life has been enabled by Brexit - you had all these freedoms before. Other people have lost a great deal because of Brexit. It would be different if Brexit had enabled you to travel freely and enjoy your house elsewhere, but that isn't the case.