Brexit mega thread 7 : global Britain is looking rather insignificant.....

[ChiswickFlo]

New thread

Apparently they all are, incredulous at BJ's denials too.
Expect more pictures!

So, again, you haven't answered the question. which result gets recorded in your history book? Did Britain Remain in the EU or Leave?

I've answered your question, @LouiseCollins28.

Sorry it's not a simple yes or no.

If you're not happy with something more nuanced, an event with more than one outcome, with outcomes occurring over time, then maybe it's true what they say about Leave voters - people who seek simple answers to complex questions.

Next step - secret meeting with ? to nobble the NIP or at least get someone else to take the blame.

Marching season is a short eight weeks away in NI.

Some provocative sectarian attacks or a political assassination might be in store, or even a false flag operation. NI descends into turmoil, troops are sent in, NIP torn up, barbed wire stretches 300 miles through fields, across roads, etc., etc.

And there is no doubt in my mind in any way shape or form that Mr Johnson would do this to stay in power. That's the calibre of the man.

mathanxiety - To which Boris Johnson and a significant number of people in England won't give a shit.

You haven't actually. I can only make an assumption on the answer you've provided that the outcome would have been 2 nations in and 2 nations out? If thats the best you can offer as an answer then I'm sorry I asked.

I think that's a bit of a Q.E.D. for Math there...

LouiseCollins28

So could I ask - will Irish reunification and an Independent Scotland be to you a worthwhile price for Brexit?

You might even get an Independent Wales, unlikely though it seems at present.

If all that were to happen, I personally would be quite happy to see Cameron and Johnson's historical legacies to be that of a pair of entitled old Etonians who went and smashed up the UK - Cameron by accident, Johnson by wanton destruction.

Oh my god. Is there nothing that the greased albino pig will do that Tory sycophants won’t excuse?? I just do not get the appeal of that man! He is such a good time Charlie in charge of the country at the worst possible time in history. Well, he looks terrible in those party photos so maybe he should’ve been careful in what he wished for in becoming PM.

I can only make an assumption on the answer you've provided that the outcome would have been 2 nations in and 2 nations out? If thats the best you can offer as an answer then I'm sorry I asked.

@LouiseCollins28
The ultimate outcome will be as I stated.

Scotland will leave the UK, and why not? All the reasons offered for why Brexit would be a good and great thing could also be given for Scotland's independence, after all. Except in the case of Scotland the various elements of the argument for independence will be real and concrete as opposed to dog whistles, and the result of cutting loose from the rest of the UK will be very positive.

NI will also leave. The idiocy of a border dividing an island has long been recognised by the people who benefited most from opening up the island to crossborder travel and increased trade; these people voted to Remain. No amount of posturing and appealing to atavistic instincts by the DUP and other hardliners will convince the farmers of Fermanagh, Tyrone, Derry, and Armagh that their lives have improved since Brexit and that their future lies within the UK. They have lost EU subsidies and the huge market on their doorstep. Reunification with Ireland would get all that back, and EU regional policies would double in effectiveness in tourism, agriculture, food processing, etc., if northern regions could be assessed and treated as a whole.

If you think you have an answer to my question - and I think you believe you do, and you are being cunningly coy about it - then you should send a postcard to Boris Johnson asking him why he campaigned for election with the promise to 'Get Brexit Done' three years after the referendum. If he didn't think it was done in 2019, what are the rest of us mere mortals to believe?

"So could I ask - will Irish reunification and an Independent Scotland be to you a worthwhile price for Brexit?"

I think we've seen from Louise - absolutely anything, nuclear war, everyone dying from alien viruses - would be worth it to be able to say that we have blue passports (because we can't say we're free of the EU, because we are a minor figure next to the world's major trading bloc, subject to their whims and fancy without the slightest bit of influence).

You might think this is bizarre and illogical, but to her, it's...

I really don't know, it makes absolutely no sense to anyone with half a brain cell...

If he didn't think it was done in 2019, what are the rest of us mere mortals to believe?

How do we know what the man thinks? This is someone who thinks that people partying until 4 am, being sick, breaking a child's swing and leaving empty bottles and rubbish around is 'work'. So can we possibly know whether he understands that he's signed international treaties or that it's usually a good idea to attempt to get on with neighbouring countries?

Morning.
I've got nothing to say about this pathetic shower of incompetents that apparentky "run" this country that won't be immediately deleted.
please insert many swear words of your choice here

I used to be proud of this country. Whilst I did not agree with Brexit and was upset at the result, I had almost come to terms with it. (OK not really but even so) However I can not come to terms with all of these parties, and the contempt they have for us. I can't get over the lack of principles, and all of the sacrifices that the rest of us made all feel like they were for nothing.

And they still hold us in contempt. What does it teach anyone.

I couldn't go to the funeral of a friend, they were partying. Women gave birth alone, went to appointments for their cancer treatment alone. My children missed out on trips and birthday parties, and all of those gatherings

I can not come to terms with our current government though. I can't move on and I am not happy with what is happening to our country. Whilst I am not in a position to move away at the moment. I will be encouraging my children once they are old enough to ensure that they also think about looking globally for their future careers.

I'm as strong a unionist as you are likely to find on here but would it be worth it, yes absolutely is my answer.

By the way, the people who will have "smashed up the UK" will be the people advocating (as they are perfectly entitled to do) for it to break up, principally the SNP at this stage.

By the way, the people who will have "smashed up the UK" will be the people advocating (as they are perfectly entitled to do) for it to break up, principally the SNP at this stage.

Not so. You could still have a United Kingdom of England, Wales and N Ireland. Once NI Ireland goes, so does the UK bit.

Your argument is no doubt the one that Johnson and Cameron would try to use, and without question, that there is a move by many in Scotland for independence means that the UK may well be tottering, but Johnson by pursuing a hard Brexit will be the one who came along and destroyed it.

I'm as strong a unionist as you are likely to find on here but would it be worth it, yes absolutely is my answer
By the way, the people who will have "smashed up the UK" will be the people advocating (as they are perfectly entitled to do) for it to break up, principally the SNP at this stage

The moment any border poll decided on unification, the loyalists would be enraged and violence, such as they caused in 1968, would follow, which nationalist communities wouldn't tolerate.
Scotlands departure would, culturally, economically and on defence (Rosyth - Trident) leave the UK much the poorer.
Scotland is rich in raw materials and ideal for many forms of renewable energy.

There is no where Trident could go in England, so its likely Scotland would demand many billions from England for it to stay.

So much for acting in the best interests of the UK... but that seems to be the way Brexitiers are, no matter the cost, Brexit must continue... either that or they are not being genuine.

... that should say "hard Brexit must continue" we can still have a brexit but not this hardcore anti european anti UK version.

I largely agree with what you posted there Alexandra. The reuinification situation in Ireland would be very difficult to manage indeed.

Agree also that the UK would be much the poorer without Scotland, certainly true on the culture and defence points.

Not sure how that last one can be resolved. My limited understanding is that their are places Trident submarines could go but none that match what can be done at Faslane. I think that if the SNP get the OK to hold IndyRef2 from the UK government, hold it, and independence wins with the SNP having committed to no nuclear weapons in Scotland then Trident needs to leave Scotland very quickly IMO.

The reuinification situation in Ireland would be very difficult to manage indeed.

Are you suggesting there would be violence? On whose part? And if so, why would this be?

What problems might surface apart from violence, in your opinion?

Recall that 56% of NI voters cast a vote to Remain, in direct defiance of the policy of the DUP, and remember too that the DUP lost votes in the last NI elections.

I would love to know how many of those DUP members made sure that they got an Irish passport.

Turns out that Brexshit is actually working as far as immigration is concerned (just not in the way the gammons had hoped);

Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
Important new data from the Home Office shows
-The biggest group of people crossing the Channel in the early part of 2022 were Afghans: one in four of all crossings.
-Over 90% of Afghans last year were given asylum.

-75% of asylum seekers were given asylum, highest since 1990.
UK gave asylum to 98% of Syrians, 97% of Eritreans, 95% of Sudanese, 91% of Afghans and 88% of Iranians.
76% of claims from young men aged 18-29 were granted.
All of these figures cast further debt on the Home Sec's assertion that 70% of channel crossings are economic migrants.
Because if that were so- why are so many being granted asylum?
But the govt says that's one of the justifications of its Rwanda plan. On the basis of these figures we'd be sending lots of people who would be granted asylum in Britain to Rwanda to live.
Positive asylum decisions are at their highest rate for many years. One reason is in fact Brexit. 2021 is first year UK is no longer part of Dublin Agreement meaning we can no longer refuse a refugee's application on basis they've already crossed into an EU country.
UK’s asylum backlog has continued to grow, reaching almost 110,000 people at the end of March. Driven by a decrease in decisions and increase in applications.
Dr Peter Walsh, Senior Researcher at the Migration Observatory at Oxford: “The government has recognised three quarters of asylum applications as valid over the last year. This is a significant shift compared to a few years ago, when the majority of asylum applications..."
were initially refused (even if many of these were later overturned on appeal). We now see majorities of positive decisions across a range of groups, from young men to older women."

New @BylineTimes poll also found that:

• Just 36% still think Brexit has been positive for the UK.
• Even 1/3 Leave voters say it has been negative
• 55% of voters now want to rejoin the EU on same terms we left.

bylinetimes.com/2022/05/27/brexit-poll-cost-of-living-more-expensive-leaving-eu/

You've mentioned violence. I did not.

What problems might surface? It seems likely to me that if a population transitions overnight from being in a majority in one country to being a small minority in another country that is likely to cause significant issues all around.

I don't know on what basis consent within Northern Ireland might be sought for leaving the UK and joining ROI but if the measure is supposed to have cross community support on the face of it that seems unlikely to be consented to by a majority in both communities.

If the population of NI is polled as a single franchise without any necssity of cross community support and voters decide by a simple majority to leave the UK and join the ROI instead then that's obviously what would and should happen but it would bring about precisely the situation I pointed to above.

Indeed previous experience would suggest (lets hope we've moved on since the 1970s) that those on the losing side preferred to engage in violence that even to participate in democracy. Here's what happened the last time a border poll was held

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Northern_Ireland_border_poll#Result