Brexit mega thread 7 : global Britain is looking rather insignificant.....

[ChiswickFlo]

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Can the USA take some action against him for lying about his intention to stay there?

Even if they could (and I am sure they could) I suspect it would be filed away under the "probably best not to" section of why they won't.

However, they may now just start revisiting greed cards already issued. This was always a possibility and one reason why DB is now a US citizen.

A green card confers an entitlement to work, that's what they are for, that's what Sunak did. "allegiance to a foreign power"

I am PMSL at DGR adopting that kind of language though. "allegiance to a foreign power" can apply to lots of 'powers'....the European Union for instance.

A very quick google on 'obligations of green card holders' produces this as the first entry:

As a permanent resident, you are: Required to obey all laws of the United States and localities; Required to file your income tax returns and report your income to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service and state taxing authorities; Expected to support the democratic form of government (“support” does not include voting.

I note the word Permanent resident - not temporary resident. Obligation to pay taxes, support the Government, although not given voting rights.

How is that not making some sort of allegiance to the country in question? I myself don't have to pay taxes to America, I have never been there, I don't owe them any allegiance whatever.

However, I do distinctly remember voting regularly in European Union elections. I also recall that some EU laws were originally suggested by the United Kingdom. (Of course, these laws have now become bad laws by definition.) Strangely enough as a one time EU resident, I don't ever recall having to fill in an EU tax return. It's very kind, isn't it for another Union to allow a Foreign Country so much say in its affairs?

I am now the one PMSL

However, they may now just start revisiting greed cards already issued.

Freudian slip there DGR! I read on twitter that Mrs Sunak's wealth is like someone having £27,000 in the bank, but chiselling for another £20.

Boris Johnson of course, didn't resign his American citizenship until they came after him for some tax. It didn't however get him out of paying it.

The same google search also led to this:

How long can a green card holder stay outside the United States?
one year
International Travel

U.S. immigration law assumes that a person admitted to the United States as an immigrant will live in the United States permanently. Remaining outside the United States for more than one year may result in a loss of Lawful Permanent Resident status.

This has now made me wonder if he didn't relinquish it voluntarily but had it taken from him, once he came to prominence as Chancellor and was clearly not a permanent resident of the USA.

I watched this go out live, thought it must be a piss take, but no this is how far down the rabbit hole you have to go before you find a 'Brexit benefit' - hint, it isn't.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/itv-touted-how-businesses-are-thriving-after-brexit-it-didnt-go-well-318641/

I have a friend who had a Green Card in the States and had lived there for well over 20 years with her NZ husband (who also has a Green Card) and has 2 20+ year old sons (both American citizens). She went back to NZ around Christmas 2019 to look after her sick mum. Then lockdown happened and she wasn't allowed to leave NZ . Even though lockdown was recently lifted in NZ, she can't get back to the States as her visa has lapsed She's still trying to get it sorted so that she can get back to her dh, see her sons - and get back to her (academic) job

Funny how it's one rule for the super rich and another for the plebs

@Peregrina

The same google search also led to this:

How long can a green card holder stay outside the United States?
one year
International Travel

U.S. immigration law assumes that a person admitted to the United States as an immigrant will live in the United States permanently. Remaining outside the United States for more than one year may result in a loss of Lawful Permanent Resident status.

This has now made me wonder if he didn't relinquish it voluntarily but had it taken from him, once he came to prominence as Chancellor and was clearly not a permanent resident of the USA.

"MAY result" dear God you folks get worse every week. I literally don't care whether he has one or doesn't have one. If he wants to make his "forever home" in the USA good luck to him.

I don't know why you chose to quibble about the statement 'may result'.

It seems a fairly polite way of saying to green card holders that if you chose to disobey our laws, we may take sanctions against you, which would mean stopping you working for us, and probably throwing you out of the country.

We do know however that Brexiters have a cavalier attitude towards International laws, so probably they think the same about National Laws? Optional extras to be obeyed if they feel like it?

Since he apparently wanted to make his 'Forever home' there, perhaps he would like to clear out now? To me it demonstrates a certain slipperiness. To you though Louise, it does appear that no Brexiter can do anything wrong.

prettybird I was saying to DH this evening that probably Covid has messed it up for him - he would normally jump on a plane as soon as a Parliamentary recess happens and make sure that he wasn't out of the USA for too long.

I like to follow the local election results

You can't read too much into them but it does seem that a lot of True Blue areas are Not Happy with the Conservatives. There is an outlier - the Tories gained a seat from Labour in High Peak, but I do know that the Parliamentary constituency there tends to flip flop between Labour and Conservative

I've had a green card since the late 1980s.

It entitles you to work. It entitles you to a social security number. It entitles you to come and go from the US (there are limits to the amount of time in any given year that you can stay outside the US before you lose your status). It affords you due process and the protection under the law that citizens are entitled to. The exception to this is that green card holders may have their status rescinded if convicted of certain crimes, and may be deported. This does not apply to citizens.

You cannot vote. You cannot hold public office. You do not take an oath, swear allegiance to the flag or to the Republic for which it stands, etc. But you do pay taxes.

How is that not making some sort of allegiance to the country in question? I myself don't have to pay taxes to America, I have never been there, I don't owe them any allegiance whatever.

I personally don't feel any allegiance to the US. If I did, I would have applied for citizenship.

There is a big difference between paying taxes and allegiance.

Babies born in the US are automatically citizens regardless of where they subsequently move to unless they renounce their citizenship, and are required to pay taxes from age 18 once they pass a certain threshold of income - the US has tax treaties with many foreign states determining the tax status of US nationals living abroad.

^..assuming that by "threats from the west" you really mean Amercian taxpayers footing most of the bill for defending Western Europe for 7 decades and counting yes you bet they are welcomed.

No, @LouiseCollins28, I mean hedge funds, vulture capitalists, pharmaceutical corporations, and the healthcare industry.

The Tories welcome these pirates with open arms, and welcomed the moral support of the various American think tanks funded by American billionaires which bolstered the case for Brexit, in particular the nexus of think tanks generated by George Mason University.

FYI, it was 100% in America's strategic interest to fund the Marshall Plan, to station troops in western Europe after WW2 (also in Japan), to fund NATO, to engage in the arms race, to court China, to depose governments considered unfriendly to the US, left, right and centre, and get involved in fighting against Communist backed enemies in Asia. It wasn't at all altruism on the part of the US.

Also -
The EU isn't a 'foreign power'.
It's a loose union of sovereign states.
The UK used to be a member and enjoyed all the powers and opportunities that all the other member states had.

..assuming that by "threats from the west" you really mean Amercian taxpayers footing most of the bill for defending Western Europe for 7 decades and counting yes you bet they are welcomed.

Trying again..

Now why is it that if Mrs Sunak's tax affairs are no one's business but her own has she decided to do this?

I can well believe that Johnson didn't know about their tax arrangements; he has enough difficulty managing his own finances.

It's more likely that Johnson knew all about the tax dodging but it was his way of keeping Sunak onside. He's probably really pissed off that the story got away before he could use the information.

However, Downing Street insiders revealed that an away day this week descended into acrimony between No 10 and No 11 aides, over the source of the Murty leak and longstanding tensions over the Partygate scandal.

Tory MPs said they believed it was possible Johnson could seek to move Sunak from the Treasury in a summer or autumn reshuffle if he survives the current crisis threatening his chancellorship

(from the Guardian link)

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/08/has-rishi-sunak-blown-chance-tory-leader

Sunak has had the misfortune of being recognised as a major threat to Johnson. Johnson has ruthlessly eliminated all potential replacements and before that all voices opposed to Brexit capable of taking support with them.
Next for the chop, Liz Truss.

Sunak has deeply tarnished the Tory brand in the last weeks. The lame attempts to pose as an ordinary Joe who understands the financial pinch have been cringeworthy to downright horrifying, depending on how much in thrall to the Tory pov you are.

A good lol here...

The people who have the most to gain from Brexit are American hedge funds and healthcare corporations

Agree with this. It’s really no coincidence that American health care companies have ramped up interest and money since Brexit and since the Tories have such a strangle on British politics.

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/17/betting-against-the-nhs-1bn-private-hospital-to-open-in-central-london

Where consultants are offered fixed salaries of up to £350,000 a year, rather than the fee-per-service basis common in the private sector, triggering a recruitment war (for 2 - 3 days a week work). Private hospitals have also pushed into ‘lucrative’ cancer treatments, which became the biggest single earner for private hospitals in London in 2019, as the Cleveland Clinic and other US brands entered the UK.

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/01/us-healthcare-giants-takeover-of-uk-gp-practices-lands-in-high-court

www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/revealed-the-links-between-tory-mps-and-the-people-profiting-from-nhs-privatisation-213827/

At the same time, Brexit was supported by Putin and Orban iirc. There were concerns at the time that Brexit would lead to other countries wanting to leave. Ultimately it worked to show the stark reality to most of the remaining 27 countries the benefits of staying in the EU, which was a benefit of Brexit (just not for the uk).

When the NHS is finally brought to its knees by the Tories, the populace will be relieved to see the Trusts wound down and hospitals bought, sold, dynamited, amalgamated, and turned into for-profit enterprises. It is going to get so bad that people will believe any alternative must be better.

And we will still see people saying that the NHS wasn't sustainable, so it had to happen.

Now I do agree that the NHS as originally envisaged isn't properly sustainable, but instead of it being sold off to the highest American bidders, I would like to see something like a Royal Commission looking at what other countries with good systems do - Scandinavia, Germany, France, or for those who hate anything to do with Europe, New Zealand or Canada, and see whether we can forge a similar example.

@mathanxiety

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/08/has-rishi-sunak-blown-chance-tory-leader

Sunak has had the misfortune of being recognised as a major threat to Johnson. Johnson has ruthlessly eliminated all potential replacements and before that all voices opposed to Brexit capable of taking support with them.
Next for the chop, Liz Truss.

Sunak has deeply tarnished the Tory brand in the last weeks. The lame attempts to pose as an ordinary Joe who understands the financial pinch have been cringeworthy to downright horrifying, depending on how much in thrall to the Tory pov you are.

Great post. All true. I mean I didn't think for a moment that the chancellor really drives a 4 year old Kia hatchback as pictured at the petrol pump the other week but if people we're expected to swallow that then yeah it's pretty rank.

I think Sunak generally has done pretty well throughout the pandemic, one of few in government or opposition to emerge "in credit" I'd say but yes this last couple of weeks it feels like have been poor from him.

If Johnson really is lining up a takedown on Truss next then I await that with interest, I'm not a fan.

@Peregrina

I like to follow the local election results

You can't read too much into them but it does seem that a lot of True Blue areas are Not Happy with the Conservatives. There is an outlier - the Tories gained a seat from Labour in High Peak, but I do know that the Parliamentary constituency there tends to flip flop between Labour and Conservative

Our local tories are being hammered on SM. It's a joy to see.

Seems their SOP of (a) ignoring anything unpleasant; except when it leaves a chance to (b) rubbish Labour (our council) has been well rumbled. From the chatter it seems their tactics are to just known on doors of already known safe Tory voters. Zero attempt at trying to canvass swing votes so far.

Quite a few hundred posts, and nobody seems too concerned about knowing what a woman is. Many more posts concerned about the fucking roads, flytipping, dangerous driving and this little thing called "the cost of living".

DW and I will be trundling down to the local primary school (5 minute walk) to cast our votes come the day. Us and the other 27.14%

Even if the Conservative's do know what a woman is, u don't trust them to do anything useful with that.

Luckily our excellent independent is standing at the next election. (I suspect I possibly wouldn't agree with their stance on that side of things, however on local issues they are amazing, and what we need)

When it comes to a general election I don't know

Even if the Conservative's do know what a woman is, u don't trust them to do anything useful with that.

Not if the screaming on other threads is to be believed ... this is the one thing that the Tories will not lie, gaslight and ignore when in power. Taxes ? Of course. Benefits ? Why wouldn't they ? Brexit ? As naturally as breathing. But something as complex and delicate as sex, gender (and most important equality ) - no, they'd not lie about that.

It's very very hard sometimes not to draw some "bad" conclusions from things I read around the place ....

This is a rum do - the Sunak's move out of Downing Street. Said to be because their daughter is about to go to boarding school. It doesn't add up in my mind.

When you know that the average salary in this country is £27000 so many people will in practice be managing on less, it sickens me that they are so money grubbing that they can pay more than this to avoid tax.