Brexit mega thread part 6: Invasion and Evasion

[Opal8]

New thread

A timely article in the New Statesman about the P&O debacle: "Brexit has failed".

www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/03/po-proves-brexit-has-failed-on-its-own-terms

But why should the EU invite Boris big brexit bollox? When they invited Truss she was ill mannered enough to pretend that it was a NATO meeting and nothing to do with the EU.

A bit more work needs to go into mending those fences first.

@Peregrina

But why should the EU invite Boris big brexit bollox? When they invited Truss she was ill mannered enough to pretend that it was a NATO meeting and nothing to do with the EU.

A bit more work needs to go into mending those fences first.

Because they are adults who understand the global stage

Oh dear.
mobile.twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1504540470373924874?cxt=HHwWlICy7cPlmeEpAAAA

Hmm. Brexshit trade deals may not deliver any "actual economic benefits" MPs warn...

And for any Brexshitteers concerned about the poor P&O workers;

From the archives - Review of UK workers' rights post-Brexit is axed in sudden U-turn.

We did warn you...

You told us that we'd improve animal welfare, worker's rights, environmental standards, better trade deals, lower energy prices...

What will it take you to admit you were wrong? On every single count.

Brexiters don't want economic benefits. EU Bad is the be all and end all of it as far as they are concerned.

@Peregrina

Brexiters don't want economic benefits. EU Bad is the be all and end all of it as far as they are concerned.

Yep thats pretty much the level of argument

I've thought for a long while that the reluctance to change minds in the light of evidence isn't about a lack of intelligence - it's cultish behaviour with real world actuality being either distorted or ignored. See also religion. In fact, I'd be interested to know what level of crossover their is between religious belief and Brexit dogma. A good venn diagram is needed.

I guess that's it.

It's just being someone with half a brain, I'd like to see some sort of valid argument to back that opinion up.

I guess we're back to calling Brexshitteers thick, because they are incapable of showing themselves to be otherwise...

It's a cult of sorts for sure.

Despite the obvious, predicted and disastrous consequences for the UK of brexshit, with all of the data and economic facts available, and fishermen and farmers and other businesses all pointing out its folly, its supporters will continue to bleat about sovereignty (despite not not actually understanding that as a legal and parliamentary term...)

It's just word pickle. A garnish for their xenophobia and exceptionalism.

Anyone else think it's a little curious how any discussion of world events has quietly bypassed any comparisons/distinctions between the history and situation of Ireland ?

After all, if the Republic were to invade Northern Ireland on the basis that "they've always been Irish" and are now under the cosh of Toryism (like Nazism but with garden parties), you'd have a sort of crude analog.

Misguided, misplaced, and probably mistaken, but it does serve to remind how complex borders and nationalities are.

@HannibalHeyes

I guess that's it.

It's just being someone with half a brain, I'd like to see some sort of valid argument to back that opinion up.

I guess we're back to calling Brexshitteers thick, because they are incapable of showing themselves to be otherwise...

It's perfectly possible to be intelligent in the sense of being educated and having a decent IQ and at the same time being utterly blinkered and lacking in common sense. That's what makes people so dangerous.

@ChiswickFlo

It's a cult of sorts for sure.

Despite the obvious, predicted and disastrous consequences for the UK of brexshit, with all of the data and economic facts available, and fishermen and farmers and other businesses all pointing out its folly, its supporters will continue to bleat about sovereignty (despite not not actually understanding that as a legal and parliamentary term...)

It's just word pickle. A garnish for their xenophobia and exceptionalism.

Precisely.

And then they get all offended when this is pointed out.

But why should the EU invite Boris big brexit bollox? When they invited Truss she was ill mannered enough to pretend that it was a NATO meeting and nothing to do with the EU.

That was my thought too. The additional problem with BJ is the substantial evidence that his actions are driven by his interests, and his interests increasingly seem not to align with the interests of this or allied countries.

I see that RMT were big advocates for Brexit, urging their members to vote 'leave'.

Or we take people at their word and accept that this is what they wanted? Remember that survey where a majority of Leave voters would still vote Leave despite having a family member who would be economically worse off… well that has happened.

Plus, they’d even vote Leave again even knowing exactly what would happen. We can see why Cummings, JRM, Johnson etc saw the benefits of fewer tax laws, less money laundering regs, less workers rights, etc. And I have to assume that the loss of workers rights was why the CBI was so ambivalent about pushing to Remain when it was obvious that trade would be hit badly.

For the average Brexit voter on the street though, I see it as a kind of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ kind of mentality. Is that exceptionalism? Or a mulish obtuseness? For many it did seem to do with stopping the freedom of movement. Whatever it was, it worked to have us here where we are now.

On Johnson being invited to discuss Ukraine with council of EU, maybe that’s the better adults in the room thinking it might remind him that he had a bigger voice inside the club paving the way to rejoin. But that’s one u-turn he’d never make.

From that article about the scathing report from the Public Account Committee (and remember, a Select Committee is a cross-party group of MPs) about the lack of benefits from any of the trade deals signed so far and how they don't replace the value of leaving the EU, this response/justification from the government jumped out at me....

But the government says the agreements could have more unknown benefits in the future.

@DuncinToffee

I see that RMT were big advocates for Brexit, urging their members to vote 'leave'.

This was the very reason that I was so puzzled, initially, by Corbyn’s/Labour’s/union’s stance. Why leave the institution that had done so much to protect worker’s rights?

Then I had to conclude that Corbyn was either not v clever or arrogant when it became clear that he saw it as an ‘opportunity’ to renationalise and go further for workers etc.

But as if somehow it was a given that Labour would a) be elected to do so and b) that the Tories would not immediately privatise again the second they were back in gov’t. There were a lot of people not thinking very well over that referendum.

So are we back to bloody Cameron to wish he’d been a stronger person in just saying no in the first place?

But the government says the agreements could have more unknown benefits in the future.

Or even more disadvantages. Three years ago we hadn't heard of Covid, although experts (we have had enough of those, remember) were predicting some sort of pandemic, soon. In January this year most of us didn't expect a war in Europe. So yes, at some unspecified time in the future, life will be a bed of roses.

Hannibal, pretty and Peregrina the section in the PAC report, preceding that comment, is also worth noting:

One analysis conducted by the University of Sussex UK Trade Policy Observatory last year found that all the trade deals signed by the government so far since Brexit were worth 178 times less than the expect hit from leaving the EU single market."

That's not borderline, it's not down to a matter of tolerances or statistical anomalies. It's HUGE.

If you sack someone and replace them, the role isn't redundant.

#justsaying

So firms get round this by shuffling the duties required in a job. Like the poor, it seems that bad employers will always be with us.

I would be interested to see who exactly has been sacked with P & O. Jobs like catering and cleaning are going to be much the same on land or at sea. But the crew operating the ship? Was there a pool of unemployed mariners ready to take the jobs on?

Absolutely, DGR. But where there's a will, there's a way. Been there, had it happen to me.
And yes, Peregrina, just how many qualified international ferry captains are there out there??