Brexit mega thread part 6: Invasion and Evasion

[Opal8]

New thread

@DuncinToffee

Some good news today, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been released and is coming home.

This is wonderful news!

Until she is actually on a plane and out of Iranian airspace, I'm not going to celebrate.

Hearing Liz Truss this morning it seems quite straightforward. The UK paid it's debt to Iran.

Having Iran re-engaging in the Paris Accord talks opens the door to more oil and gas on the world market. Sorry greenies.

@Peregrina

Some good news today, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been released and is coming home.

If that is the fall out from the War in Ukraine at least it's the one positive.

Yes. But it's clear we could have done this 6 years ago ....poor woman :(

It's a ray of hope in very dark times, long overdue.
Will this be LT's legacy?

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for Louise to respond. What a tease you are, Louise!

@DuncinToffee

Some good news today, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been released and is coming home.

I'm so pleased to see that, I was hoping for good news when she was given her UK passport back yesterday.

Agreed, Duncin.
Tulip Suddiq has tweeted a photo of Nazanin on a plane. Wonderful.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Agreed, Duncin. Tulip Suddiq has tweeted a photo of Nazanin on a plane. Wonderful.

☺️

A little spark of hope.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

It's a ray of hope in very dark times, long overdue. Will this be LT's legacy?

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for Louise to respond. What a tease you are, Louise!

I'm probably as guilty as anyone, but it does seem a little OTT to try to demand posters post. If they chose not to then Res ipsos loquitor as always.

I've always said I have no problem with people basing their views on the feelz. But what I do have a problem with - and Brexit amped it up to the max - are people who won't admit that and instead spend 6 years and counting trying to somehow invent logical and compelling reasons why they are right and you are wrong. it's a little akin to trying to use nuclear physics and Feynman diagrams to prove that the UK has the best Eurovision entry.

If you don't like foreigners at least be honest about it. Not contrive a lifetimes faux experiences to cloak it.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Agreed, Duncin. Tulip Suddiq has tweeted a photo of Nazanin on a plane. Wonderful.

Oh that is wonderful news indeed.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

It's a ray of hope in very dark times, long overdue. Will this be LT's legacy?

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for Louise to respond. What a tease you are, Louise!

respond to what? sorry if I missed a question.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Louise I knew you wouldn't let me down.

You'll be aware that The European Communities Act 1972 took the UK out of Euratom as well as the EU.

As the UK has no nuclear reactors capable of producing isotopes used in nuclear medicine, it is now vulnerable to any glitches in the supply of these from other France, Belgium and the Netherlands.
Also, leaving Euratom adversely impacts the capability of the UK to carry out research in the nuclear field. Job losses, future loss of research income, inability to realise early benefits etc.

I cannot see the benefits of either of the above, but since you can, Louise, would you mind spelling them out for me?

Chris Bryant often impresses.

^ there you go

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Louise I knew you wouldn't let me down.

You'll be aware that The European Communities Act 1972 took the UK out of Euratom as well as the EU.

As the UK has no nuclear reactors capable of producing isotopes used in nuclear medicine, it is now vulnerable to any glitches in the supply of these from other France, Belgium and the Netherlands.
Also, leaving Euratom adversely impacts the capability of the UK to carry out research in the nuclear field. Job losses, future loss of research income, inability to realise early benefits etc.

I cannot see the benefits of either of the above, but since you can, Louise, would you mind spelling them out for me?

Chris Bryant often impresses.

Benefits of leaving Euratom? Honestly not sure I can help on that one. This article seems to suggest we've mostly covered the situation re supply of isotopes but this area is so far from any actual knowlege I have I'm reluctant to comment

www.shma.co.uk/our-thoughts/the-impact-of-brexit-on-the-energy-sector-what-are-the-risks-for-the-nuclear-industry/?utm_source=Mondaq&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=LinkedIn-integration

One thing that does seem glaring is a decades long failure to invest enough in nuclear power in the UK. Hopefully now we are more self reliant in this area it will get the investment needed.

But you were confident enough to vote leave? Despite not understanding the huge complexity of a decades long partnership?

Just don't get cancer, eh?

One thing that does seem glaring is a decades long failure to invest enough in nuclear power in the UK

I could not agree more. But weirdly our votes cancel each other out. And that's not an accident.

(Thanks, flo).
Louise, yesterday, at 19:10, you posted: "The European Communities Act 1972, I was delighted to see, ceased to have effect in the UK from 01/01/2021." (my bold).
I pointed out that this also took the UK out of Euratom, and asked you what the benefit of leaving Euratom was. Today you tell me that you can't help with that.
You've repeatedly written on this thread that you knew what you were voting for when you voted to leave.

For some reason, my brain is hurting.
But thank you for answering.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

(Thanks, flo). Louise, yesterday, at 19:10, you posted: "The European Communities Act 1972, I was delighted to see, ceased to have effect in the UK from 01/01/2021." (my bold). I pointed out that this also took the UK out of Euratom, and asked you what the benefit of leaving Euratom was. Today you tell me that you can't help with that. You've repeatedly written on this thread that you knew what you were voting for when you voted to leave.

For some reason, my brain is hurting.
But thank you for answering.

No worries 👍

What is there to stop the WTD being changed? (Working time directive)

Louise, do you not see that a government with a large majority can do anything it pleases when it comes to workers' rights now that there is no EU court to appeal to?

Do you think a government would not be capable of selling an adverse change to workers' rights as a marvelous departure for the newly freed UK and charging opponents with a lack of patriotism?

Also, on another note, what is the price of Nazanin's release?

I've always said I have no problem with people basing their views on the feelz. But what I do have a problem with - and Brexit amped it up to the max - are people who won't admit that and instead spend 6 years and counting trying to somehow invent logical and compelling reasons why they are right and you are wrong. it's a little akin to trying to use nuclear physics and Feynman diagrams to prove that the UK has the best Eurovision entry.

If you don't like foreigners at least be honest about it. Not contrive a lifetimes faux experiences to cloak it.

Well said!

@mathanxiety

What is there to stop the WTD being changed? (Working time directive)

Louise, do you not see that a government with a large majority can do anything it pleases when it comes to workers' rights now that there is no EU court to appeal to?

Do you think a government would not be capable of selling an adverse change to workers' rights as a marvelous departure for the newly freed UK and charging opponents with a lack of patriotism?

Also, on another note, what is the price of Nazanin's release?

£400 million

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

(Thanks, flo). Louise, yesterday, at 19:10, you posted: "The European Communities Act 1972, I was delighted to see, ceased to have effect in the UK from 01/01/2021." (my bold). I pointed out that this also took the UK out of Euratom, and asked you what the benefit of leaving Euratom was. Today you tell me that you can't help with that. You've repeatedly written on this thread that you knew what you were voting for when you voted to leave.

For some reason, my brain is hurting.
But thank you for answering.

I've repeatedly written that I knew what I was voting for because people keep asking me about it (which btw I wholly welcome) and it happens to be true.

I was "delighted", as I wrote earlier and you quoted me, as I wasn't previously aware that the European Communities Act 1972 had been repealed. I thought it might still be sitting there but was pleased to see that it isn't, or at least it's now history without any legal force.

@mathanxiety

What is there to stop the WTD being changed? (Working time directive)

Louise, do you not see that a government with a large majority can do anything it pleases when it comes to workers' rights now that there is no EU court to appeal to?

Do you think a government would not be capable of selling an adverse change to workers' rights as a marvelous departure for the newly freed UK and charging opponents with a lack of patriotism?

Also, on another note, what is the price of Nazanin's release?

math working time regs are now part of UK law on the same basis as the EU WTD as I understand it.

What is to stop a government changing those regulations? As you suggest, if that government can convince Parliament to vote for it, those laws can be changed, same with just about any other law. So not much tbh.

I'm not aware of any party yet going to the electorate with a proposal seeking a mandate to change them, or seeking reelecton after having changed them.

You want our government to be beholden to an outside court and I don't. I want it to be answerable to the electorate. If they change things and the voters don't like the change, the government won't be returned to office.

£400m is the price of Nazanin's release reportedly. OK so I'm being a bit cheeky, I think there were some tanks involved somewhere along the line, but that's the quoted figure.

"Benefits of leaving Euratom? Honestly not sure I can help on that one. This article seems to suggest we've mostly covered the situation re supply of isotopes but this area is so far from any actual knowlege I have I'm reluctant to comment"

But you knew what you were voting for!??

@ChiswickFlo

"Benefits of leaving Euratom? Honestly not sure I can help on that one. This article seems to suggest we've mostly covered the situation re supply of isotopes but this area is so far from any actual knowlege I have I'm reluctant to comment"

But you knew what you were voting for!??

ChiswickFlo. Do you beleive that a voter needs to know everything about everything to be allowed to cast a vote?

I "knew what i was voting for" is not the same as "I knew every possible consequence of my vote and considered all of them and weighted them in a way somebody else deems appropriate"

You may find this hard to believe, but I think long and hard about voting. No amount of effort I could make would give me enough knowledge to assess "every possible consequence."

People make judgements, on this choice yours and mine differed, on another issue our choices might be the same?