To ask what has improved since leaving the EU?

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ve just had to pay customs charges on something I ordered from Germany - whilst we were in the EU there were no such charges.

Which got me thinking.

Leaving hasn’t been the disaster some predicted but, I can’t think of anything that affects me that’s actually improved since leaving.

What have other people’s upsides been? (And just being able to say we’re not in the EU anymore doesn’t count! 😂)

In an ideal world, a motivation for brexit.

1. More accountability for our politicians and our countries state (no blaming EU)

2. The end of our under the table economy/indentured servitude

Anecdote but every EU student I knew, and non EU - and I knew a lot. Worked under the table as, labourers, fruit/veg pickers, wait staff, in hotels, even in hospitals as basic HA (through agency). They loved it as it got them money and they knew they only had to put up with it for x months for 3 years. Far different to a lifetime.

This country is not attractive for benefits. It's attactive for under the table work. The EU freedom of movement enabled this

I'm white working class, 4 relatives (white working/underclass) are working under the table because they don't have the access to legal jobs (poor navigational skills, social skills, reading age of 6 etc...)

These are young men with families that are exploited for 60/70 a day for 12 hours hard labour (plumbing, roofing, decorating ect) and think that's fab!. They have no rights. They rely on their bosses 'good will' to give them maybe 1 or two days a week work and if you complain- move onto the next lad. These people also risking getting it in the neck if benefits catch them (punishing their families by rule as well). But what better is there? They are lower than most and on paper, unskilled and lazy.

Meanwhile, immigrants can and will come here doing the same thing. Difference is. These immigrants can live 10 to a 2 bed. They can suffer in slums knowing in a few years they go home rich to their families.

Our people can't do that.

So In an ideal world, brexit would have instantly cut the supply of low labour, meaning we could now go after every under the table, bar, hospitality, takeaway, car wash, nail palour etc and destroy under the table working ....

But it won't. Why do you think people are so irate about the possibility of ID cards. Because the government (and any future labour government) would have to deal with under the table working and unlike other EU countries, we refuse to do this

Remember, our economy runs on coffee chains and overpriced public transport (and under the table illegal workforce but shhh don't mention that you racist!)

I think many people are reluctant to post about immigrants scamming the system in anyway

My family are immigrants they did, where my dad lived was like little South Asia and they all helped each other out this was common not unusual and carries on (throughout the world) as this is how things are down at home for them. Second generation is different as UK is home. And these areas were also poor areas already

I can say that. But can someone who isn’t for an immigrant family (and by no means saying all do) without being called racist

I know plenty of indigenous british people who scam the system, i don't think its any surprise that foreign workers would do similar.

However, the EU workers i knew, worked for DPD, in factories, the NHS, Care Homes, not cash industries such as domestic construction.

If people are living in 2 bed houses 5 to a room, thats down to the UK not enforcing housing law, not the EU or FOM.

As PP said the issues are due to UK failings.

The U.K. is planning to fill the gaps of Eu labour from immigration elsewhere - India do hope for free movement for its citizens within the trade deal, we hoped for similar with Australia. We are opening back up the post study option of staying for 2 years after graduation to have time to find work - so saying brexit was a bonus to teach us to manage labour shortages is not really correct, as the gov’t plans to continue to fill jobs where necessary with immigration. The changes are sold as fair for everyone to apply wherever they live in the world - not we will manage without this labour.
EU migrants whilst we were in the EU actually contributed to the U.K. economy more than a U.K. national - £2,300 more.
We need migration to support our economy- and we encourage it - so stopping eu migration is maybe fairer to world migrants hoping to work here - but it certainly isn’t a general benefit to our economy and is in fact the opposite.

Alexandra2001

Difference being. Foreign workers can have the oppportunity to go back home, comfortable if not outright rich.

Whereas natives can't. Yet the narrative 'lazy brits' stemmed from this. Leading to a cycle of resentment as well as continued exploitation of natives and non natives.

'immigrants taking our jobs' phrase, was right- for the black economy. Sadly this will
continue to be enabled by larger non eu immigration

This country is a dump that runs on illegal industries, indentured seritude of non natives and practical slavery of underclass natives who 'know there place'.

Brexit could have brought a true change and accountability of our society, but it hasn't.

It's often said that Britain could have done its own vaccine rollout as part of the EU but the fact is we wouldn't have. The EU has always been a good place for lazy British politicians to apportion blame for things that weren't entirely the EUs fault. So Brexit meant they were forced to invest in vaccine procurement and this was a benefit because without it we'd be bottom of the EU queue. As it is the French did ever they could to discredit AZ, despite it being no more risky in the end than Pfizer has turned out to be.

I also think we have a real opportunity to raise workers wages and take some of the power from the employer, who could previously exploit both UK and Easter European workers.

Eventually we can vote out our government and I hope for a better calibre of politician in the future. Membership of the EU stood in the way of that and gave our useless, failed politicians a nice gravy train to get on.

Well there’s more jobs in my area now.

I’m very much a remainer BTW and literally cried when leave won. I have see some many awful things since it happened but there are still loads more jobs around here now than I can ever remember before.

@HonestwithHope1

I was going to reluctantly vote Leave, based on FOM/immigration but once i looked into the UK labour market and saw through the narrative of blaming the EU for the UK's own failings it was obvious we were being lied too.

I think many EU workers were always going to go back home as poorer EU countries are no longer quite so poor & its cheap an easy to do so, thats not the case with somewhere like India/Asia

Yes the UK certainly is a dump and UK politicians certainly haven't become more accountable, just found different external things to blame - Covid/Russia/Energy prices.

[quote FatFredsFriedEgg]@Thewindwhispers

I think @junglejane66 was doing a @jgw1 on us. Either that or they're a fucking liar.

The Clown has only been in office since 2019. Brexit, depending on your definition, happened in 2020/2021/2022/godknowswhen. New hospitals are not conceived, planned, paid for, built and operational within a couple of years.[/quote]
Calm down potty mouth.

It was reference the Boris bus advert that said we send £350m a week to eu, lets spend it on the NHS instead.

Still some fell on stony ground

@Aderyn21
The UK has always chosen to do its own thing ie no to euro, no to schengen, several opt outs from EU fundamental policies, i suspect Cameron (and it would have been him if remain had won) would have gone its own way on vaccines too.

Wages, despite 7 years since the vote, are still way behind inflation and public sector workers are getting 1%.

How on earth does the EU stop us from having better politicians? or making better voting choices? Thats down to FPTP voting, no other european country has this system apart from Belarus !!

All they will do is blame something/someone else.

@PurplePansy05 MNHQ have answered your question of me, i reported your very rude post and they deleted it.

My friend is France is always saying how there are not any French plumbers being trained in France any more.
I live in France and can assure you that the plumbers of my acquaintance ( of which there are many unfortunately) are unmistakably Gallic ( and loaded).

@junglejane66 you do know that it is a compliment to be compared to me?

It's often said that Britain could have done its own vaccine rollout as part of the EU but the fact is we wouldn't have.

Why not? You went your own way on lots of things.

@Alexandra2001 🍪 have a good day!

God people genuinely do believe that the fast vaccine roll out was a consequence of Brexit don't they?
We could have done that in or out of the EU.
In any event, we were soon overtaken on vax by other EU countries.

Plus we've ended up paying significantly more for Pfizer than we would have done had we participated in the EU procurement.

None of this is a criticism, by the way - but the idea that we are "ahead" of Europe on vaccinations because of Brexit is just laughable.

Why we wouldn’t have gone alone is probably related to that - the idea we could procure at a lower cost

I think some countries did want to go it alone but were persuaded to wait

Whether we would have been persuaded too it’s hard to know

However, the EU workers i knew, worked for DPD, in factories, the NHS, Care Homes, not cash industries such as domestic construction.

And this is the problem in this country - assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Just because your world knows that this is what all EU migrants supposedly do certainly doesn't make it true. EU migrants, much like the British population, have worked in a huge variety of jobs here for decades. Some of them have such command of English that you wouldn't even realise they aren't natives.

Alexandra we've done our own thing re the Euro primarily because it would have been an election loser to give up the pound. Had we been part of the EU during covid, I believe our government would have quite happily chipped in with the EU vax development became this govt is fundamentally quite lazy and would have had nothing to prove without Brexit. It motivated them to pull their finger out and finance/roll out vaccinations. I don't believe Cameron would have been inclined to not join the EU rollout - on paper it seemed like a good idea. But the EU is too big, too unwieldy and has too many members whose societies and priorities aren't the same. As a trading agreement it was a great idea but it's become too much and has become a useful shield for politicians to blame for their own failures. Without it there's a chance our domestic politicians will have to raise their game. Although there's no sign of it yet!
I also don't think freedom of movement is universally good and I would prefer system that is fairer to non EU citizens who want to move here. My sister in law in a non EU citizen and I've seen her having to jump through hoops and my brother spend thousands of pounds to get her what someone else could just take for granted. That wasn't fair.

PurplePansy05

Oh right. That's me, pure thick bitch. Sorry my lived experience in poor northern towns then later, a northern city with a great uni known for international students doesn't represent all.

How dare I

@PurplePansy05

However, the EU workers i knew, worked for DPD, in factories, the NHS, Care Homes, not cash industries such as domestic construction.

And this is the problem in this country - assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Just because your world knows that this is what all EU migrants supposedly do certainly doesn't make it true. EU migrants, much like the British population, have worked in a huge variety of jobs here for decades. Some of them have such command of English that you wouldn't even realise they aren't natives.

i did state "i knew" (so anecdotal) and it was in context to a PP who said the ones they knew where all working for cash in hand......

However, i would contend that the majority of the 3m (working age) or so who were here, were working legally, backed up by HMRC figures.

Yes completely agree on the levels of English EU citizens have, especially compared to our very poor foreign language skills.

Fuck all has improved. Plenty has got worse. We are thinking of moving to mainland Europe, we think that the quality of life and future for our dcs is likely to be better there (at least for the next 10-20 years).

@PurplePansy05

Oh right. That's me, pure thick bitch. Sorry my lived experience in poor northern towns then later, a northern city with a great uni known for international students doesn't represent all.

How dare I talk about any actual problems and the reality that it is piss easy to work under the table in this country compared to others, which is something the brexit vote tried to capatalise on re immigration problems

Back in my lower class servitude box I go :)

@HonestwithHope1 What are you talking about now, sorry? I didn't comment on anything you've said. I've pointed out the inaccuracy of another poster's comment. Or is it a name change fail at your end

Freedom of movement was a two way system, so we stopped people coming in as well as people going out.

But he why would we want our children to have the same opporunities as we had.