Brexit Megathread Part 3: COP26 and beyond. The Empire is no more.

[prettybird]

The old thread is nearly full so as COP26 is in my home town, I thought I'd start the next one.

I'm not expecting anything wonderful from COP26. The selfishness that is Brexit will extend to the rich nations - or rather corporations, countries and cronies - not wanting to do anything that might actually cost them money or hurt their profits and having made their money on the back of the resources of the poorer nations (in some cases quite literally ), they'll expect them to pay the price for the riches of the West.

The deliberate mistranslation of France's letter to the EU will distract from real issues - but that's ok for BJ as he can then blame the perfidious French.

Nothing changes.

Paid lobbying however presents no danger to someones life,

You say that. I think it could be argued that if it's found that some of these Covid Contracts were awarded as a result of lobbying, and furthermore awarded to firms who produced equipment which was not up to standard then had to be scrapped, which in turn allowed the spread of Covid, then yes, it could be seen that lives were endangered.

Anyone who does not understand the threat that " paid lobbying" or corruption in plain English, presents to this country is willfully blind or stupid, or both. If right and wrong are irrelevant, what is the point of any pretence at democracy. And that is the path we are on.

MPs are in parliament to represent their constituents, not to sell their votes by the ££. And just read Jolyon Maugham's twitter feed to see the deaths caused by cronyism.

MPs are in parliament to represent their constituents, not to sell their votes by the ££.

I forget which MP it was, but he told the Local Council that he represented Westminster to them. They told him politely, no chum, we elect you to represent us in Westminster.

MPs are in parliament to represent their constituents, not to sell their votes by the ££.

What a fucking stupid thing to think. This is England. If there is no law against, then it's not illegal.

Pretty certain there was a "Long Johns" routine that had that tack,

There used to be ethical Conservative MPs who believed that they represented the interests of the country, their constituency and then and only then their Party.

Shame but not surprising that BJ only selectively follows the example of his supposed hero, Churchill.

The first duty of a member of Parliament is to do what he thinks in his faithful and disinterested judgement is right and necessary for the honour and safety of Great Britain. His second duty is to his constituents, of whom he is the representative but not the delegate. Burke's famous declaration on this subject is well known. It is only in the third place that his duty to party organization or programme takes rank. All these three loyalties should be observed, but there in no doubt of the order in which they stand under any healthy manifestation of democracy.' Sir Winston Churchill on the Duties of a Member of Parliament.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmmodern/337/33706.htm

There were 13 MPs who were prepared to defy the whip, don't forget. One of whom was a previous chief whip. Another was the new MP for Hartlepool. (Yes, she might have kissed any fast track to promotion goodbye.)

@pointythings

Paid lobbying however presents no danger to someones life, threatening that someone "should be acid" clearly could do, yet Webbe is still an MP and Paterson is not.

That's irrelevant. Parliamentary processes are as they are - Claudia Webbe should absolutely resign, but that is not within the gift of the Labour party, so equating her situation with the Owen Paterson situation is disingenuous to say the least. Bottom line is that re Claudia Webbe, the Labour Party did all that was within their power to disown and expel her, whereas the Tories, led from the top, did everything in their power to shield one of their own and embed something very like 'the right to be corrupt' by attempting to remove what scrutiny and control there was.

Pointy for about the 5th time on this thread. I am not criticising the Labour party. I am criticising the media.

Why are you criticising the media Louise Collins? The mainstream media in this country has a massive right wing bias, because most of it is owned by foreign billionaires.

Given that fact, does any whiff of reality reported about the Tories now seem unfair? Maybe your Overton window needs a shift.

Word is that Murdoch has fallen out with Johnson, hence all the hate rags headlining against him. So much for democracy

Louise criticising the media is a cheap cop out when the party that holds your political allegiance is sinking under the weight of its own corruption.

When the BBC and the Daily Mail start slating the current government, that really should be an indication of how bad they are - not a reason to complain that the media are biased against them. We all know which parts of the media have which political affiliation. You seem desperately unwilling to criticise your own party.

And again for about the 5th time. They aren't my party, I'm not a member, I have criticised them in this thread and will continue to do so.

The mainstream media, print/broadcast and online has a rightwing bias? ludicruous IMO. The print media, possibly though there are the Guardian and the Mirror, media as a whole, no chance IMO.

The BBC have been "slating" Johnson as you put it for decades, sometimes fairly, sometimes not. The Daily Mail, as you probably know is now edited by Geordie Grieg, a self acknowledged remainer/ The notion that they support the Johnson government under their current editor is absurd.

In view if your last comment Louise collins, it is clear that you have no grip on reality.

@wewereliars

In view if your last comment Louise collins, it is clear that you have no grip on reality.

This

I've got no grip on reality? love it! Thank you so much.

Also, not that you really need it since my willingness to criticise the Government, Parliament etc has been proven on here many, many times but if you want a more serious case of Tory Sleaze than any highlighted so far, take a look at this guy! Paterson should be (and now is) gone. This is worse, this is unpaid tax.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/08/tory-mp-faces-bankruptcy-over-unpaid-taxes-and-may-have-to-step-down-adam-afriyie

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10180179/Bankruptcy-unpaid-taxes-force-MP-resign-spark-election.html

Take your pick of source material. This guy should be out, ASAP.

@LouiseCollins28

And again for about the 5th time. They aren't my party, I'm not a member, I have criticised them in this thread and will continue to do so.

The mainstream media, print/broadcast and online has a rightwing bias? ludicruous IMO. The print media, possibly though there are the Guardian and the Mirror, media as a whole, no chance IMO.

The BBC have been "slating" Johnson as you put it for decades, sometimes fairly, sometimes not. The Daily Mail, as you probably know is now edited by Geordie Grieg, a self acknowledged remainer/ The notion that they support the Johnson government under their current editor is absurd.

Well if Johnson had not been an incompetent, corrupt laughing stock for decades, perhaps they wouldn't have slated him. Whereas of course the media took things ever so easy on Jeremy Corbyn...

@LouiseCollins28

Also, not that you really need it since my willingness to criticise the Government, Parliament etc has been proven on here many, many times but if you want a more serious case of Tory Sleaze than any highlighted so far, take a look at this guy! Paterson should be (and now is) gone. This is worse, this is unpaid tax.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/08/tory-mp-faces-bankruptcy-over-unpaid-taxes-and-may-have-to-step-down-adam-afriyie

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10180179/Bankruptcy-unpaid-taxes-force-MP-resign-spark-election.html

Take your pick of source material. This guy should be out, ASAP.

Agree that this guy should be out on his ear - but he won't be.

Well if Johnson had not been an incompetent, corrupt laughing stock for decades, perhaps they wouldn't have slated him.
Whereas of course the media took things ever so easy on Jeremy Corbyn...

And that is the structural problem - the left are held to far higher standards than the right. Nothing will change until that is no longer the case.

If you do not see that the main stream media in this country is extremely right wing you are not engaged in reality. It is a fact not a matter of opinion. I am not interested in what you have posted. It makes no difference.

Pick up a copy of the Irish times, the New York Times, Bloomberg, or any European daily and see what reporting can and should look like.

Oh, and for anyone wanting real news, the Yorkshire Times is excellent, as is the Byline Times, of course neither of them are mainstream . Unfortunately

Who are the right wingers, I just told you the Daily Mail is edited by a remainer. Lets go through the major outlets...

Sky News - Firmly pro business I'd say but not right wing (unless you think those things are the same, which you could)
BBC - So soft leftie it's unbeleivable. When do they ever have anything pro Brexit?
Channel 4 - So soft leftie it's unbeleivable. When do they ever have anything pro Brexit?
ITV - they have news? really? I'm honestly not sure what their output is like but they have Peston and he's a left leaning commentator as well
GB News - can't get it basically, so I've pretty much never watched it, assume right/pro Brexit - audience is reportedly tiny.

How is 1 news provider (and by far the smallest) being right wing out of the 5 biggest ones evidence of an "extremely right wing" media.

Ahhh but the papers you say? Literally who cares, compare viewing figures and readership. Its no contest, and I havent even mentioned new/social media.

Where I do think this criticism is valid is that not nearly enough actual left content gets put out on mainstream channels! For example, who on a mainstream news channel was criticising Obama for his nonsense at COP-26 give his record on $80bn auto bailaouts. I did, check my posts.

Well, part of the problem is that it's difficult to put out anying pro-Brexit because we haven't exactly been inundated in positive changes (yet), have we?

You do realise that left wing and right wing are not the same as brexit

and remain? Louise collins, you are really not helping yourself.

I am embarrassed for you

From 2016 and its only gotten worse since them and lets be honest a lot of the media outlets touted by the right wing as being too left wing, too 'woke' are really only centrist publications

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-media-is-the-most-rightwing-in-europe-yougov-finds-a6859266.html

British media 'most right-wing' in Europe, YouGov survey finds

@Peregrina

There were 13 MPs who were prepared to defy the whip, don't forget. One of whom was a previous chief whip. Another was the new MP for Hartlepool. (Yes, she might have kissed any fast track to promotion goodbye.)

Also as Laura K noted (a rare bit of actually doing her fucking job for a change) once you've defied the whip once, it's easier a second time.

It's been years since I read "The Martian Chronicles", but ISTR the twist was that the Martian settlers effectively became the new martians.

It would be richly deserved if - having swallowed the Red Wall intake in 2019, the Tory party became a husk of itself.

Still whining about Brexit? Get a life. You lost. We won. Move on.

The actual text and correct translation of the offensive letter:
'The offending lines run thus: ‘Il est indispensable de montrer clairement aux opinions publiques européennes que le respect des engagements souscrits n’est pas négociable et qu’il y a davantage de dommage à quitter l’Union qu’á y demeurer.’

One translation by an Irish professor runs thus: ‘It is indispensable to show clearly to European public opinion that the respect of commitments entered into is not negotiable and it is as damaging to leave the Union as it is to stay in it.’

This interpretation is difficult because the final line makes little sense in context. A correct alternative would translate ‘davantage’ in its normal adverbial sense as ‘more’ and render it thus: ‘that there is more harm in the leaving the Union than in remaining.’

The WA is of course entirely renegotiable and will be renegotiated, probably right after we have torn up the NI Protocol.