Brexit Megathread - Part 2 because it's not over by a long shot

[vera99]

Well getting to a 1000 posts didn't take too long so here we are.... everybody welcome!

Freedom of movement didn't make the list. I assume because anyone who wants to work in the EU isn't a true Brit, so can be disregarded.

Well, this was because we held all the cards, so the EU was going to let British citizens move there without question, while we stopped the movement to the UK.

@Peregrina

Freedom of movement didn't make the list. I assume because anyone who wants to work in the EU isn't a true Brit, so can be disregarded.

Well, this was because we held all the cards, so the EU was going to let British citizens move there without question, while we stopped the movement to the UK.

From my cousin (Tenerife) it seems quite a lot of "Europe" aren't missing the British too much. Especially as we're making ourselves poorer ...

www.bbc.com/news/business-58988711
UK agrees free trade deal with New Zealand

Presumably the farmer voted for this?

It's no accident that the BBC leads with a photo of sheep.

The NFU said the deal, like the one with Australia, could have a "huge downside", especially for UK dairy and meat farmers.

Its president, Minette Batters, said the Australia and New Zealand deals mean "we will be opening our doors to significant extra volumes of imported food - whether or not produced to our own high standards - while securing almost nothing in return for UK farmers".

"The fact is that UK farm businesses face significantly higher costs of production than farmers in New Zealand and Australia, and it's worth remembering that margins are already tight here due to ongoing labour shortages and rising costs on farm," she said.

"The government is now asking British farmers to go toe-to-toe with some of the most export-orientated farmers in the world, without the serious, long-term and properly funded investment in UK agriculture that can enable us to do so.

..............

The international trade secretary said British farmers should not be concerned about increased lamb imports because the lambing seasons were different in the UK and New Zealand.

Anne-Marie Trevelyan has never heard of freezers.

The international trade secretary said British farmers should not be concerned about increased lamb imports because

this was another international deal the UK has fuck all intention of upholding ?

@AuldAlliance
My son is in Belgium at present on an Erasmas scheme carried forward from last year. The current visa costs alone have been in excess of £750 and we've just been informed that one of the forms has been filled incorrectly and has to be resubmitted (in spite of it being translated by one of his Flemish speaking peers). If it isn't all sorted before 90 days is up then he has to come home and not finish his Erasmus course).
Any students from a poorer background won't stand a chance of studying abroad again.

Any students from a poorer background won't stand a chance of studying abroad again

So that part of the plan is going well then ..

• Kick out foreigners. Done
• Prevent our own citizens from escaping. done
• remove the rights of those trapped. Being done

Looks like Brexit is "getting done".

On a slightly related note, I wonder if many other countries will follow Morocco and start keeping the UK at bay over our Covid insouciance ?

Any students from a poorer background won't stand a chance of studying abroad again

So much for "levelling up" then. Except of course, we were always told it wasn't taken up by people from poorer backgrounds. Little Wilfred Johnson will be OK - the money will be there for him to study where-ever he wants.

.

@grumpyoldpersonwithcats my son is doing his engineering degree, in English, in Finland. Fees £0 and his rent (which includes WiFi and building wide heating) is lower than his old smaller flat in a Midlands city. Only the booze is more expensive. Another opportunity lost.

I have noticed a distinct lack of Tory bots on SM celebrating this NZ deal

Turing is being touted as an opportunity for the less well-off to benefit from mobility, in opposition to that old chestnut about Erasmus being for rich kids to have a gap year.
But it's entirely opaque so far. And despite the term "exchange" being used, it's not an exchange - it's for UK students to go abroad.

At several of our partner universities in the UK colleagues have been told it won't include funding for mobility to the EU, but at least one is already using it instead of Erasmus funding to send students to France, although Erasmus funding was still available to UK students this year. Clear as mud.

It will be interesting to see who gets funding to go where.

In a spirit of enquiry, I googled and found this website (not affiliated to any official body, admittedly...wonder who is behind it?):
ukturingscheme.com/
I looked at France, marvelled at the pictures of pre-Raphaelite girls in close embrace, and clicked on the link for the first uni.

Institut National Polytechnique de Toulouse is located in a place called Toulouse, which is located in France, a country that lies in the region of Europe.

Turing Scheme Eligibility
The Turing Scheme is not available at Institut National Polytechnique de Toulouse at this point of time. This could mean that Institut National Polytechnique de Toulouse is currently filing an application to accept students on the Turing Scheme, or that they have not yet applied.

TBH, I didn't look at the whole site, but - other than the "geography for dummies" intro - it says the same thing for every university I clicked on. And the pictures are fab. France is for sporty/sexy girls, but the UK is better for eating candy floss or swanning around in evening/bridal wear.
Who knew?
ukturingscheme.com/tags/united-kingdom/

As for this utter load of bollocks, what can I say?
ukturingscheme.com/posts/partner-universities-that-will-be-approved-for-the-turing-scheme-exchange/

However, that website does suggest someone close to the Tory party, perhaps? has spotted a way of making money somewhere along the line by flogging Turing to UK students.

That website is bad!
It also states '* NOTE: This website not affiliated with the official UK education or governing body.'

I think this is the official website
www.turing-scheme.org.uk/

Yes, that looks better.
Interesting reading...thanks!

There was of course, nothing stopping the Government from inventing a Turning programme as an add on to Erasmus, for the rest of the world.

This is the sort of stupidity which annoys me - we must pretend that the EU doesn't exist.

Turing sorry, not Turning. Although maybe the Government will eventually turn, we have to try to keep living in hope.

DD2's degree includes an optional year abroad, with the options being South Africa, Ireland or Portugal. She's leaning towards Ireland at the moment because of her interest in basking sharks. Thanks goodness she has that fabulous burgundy passport and is an EU national with home student status. So many of her peers are going to struggle.

My son ( dual passport holder). Is on a post degree year out in EU at moment doing voluntary schemes , all with EU funding. He’s just finishing 3 months nature conservation work in Italy and going to Croatia and then Slovenia til Xmas. He’s having a fantastic time, enjoying physical work after 4 years of degree improving his language skills etc.

Sadly not open to UK nationals! Promoted by EU for young people to gain skills & make cultural connections.

It's totally shit, but I think we need to focus on what is still available. For instance, it's possible, as a young UK person, to spend a year travelling and working in Japan. Young people can also work in Monaco. It's possible to volunteer to do environmental work in Germany for a year. Let's find out what's possible, rather than making our young people feel that they are social pariahs (in world terms) and have no options.

Mostly lurk, thanks for the continuing thread.
Not wishing to be the contributor of doom so soon after a plea to look optimistically, but young people may be able to work in Monaco (I haven't checked) but where would they live? Not France, like many Monaco workers, presumably. And unlikely in Monaco.

@SecondRateFrog

It's totally shit, but I think we need to focus on what is still available. For instance, it's possible, as a young UK person, to spend a year travelling and working in Japan. Young people can also work in Monaco. It's possible to volunteer to do environmental work in Germany for a year. Let's find out what's possible, rather than making our young people feel that they are social pariahs (in world terms) and have no options.

But the opportunities are still much reduced. Japan etc haven't only become possible after we left the EU. I know so many who have spent a year or 2 working in EU countries including Scandinavia, Germany, Netherlands etc much to the benefit of their careers. It wasn't all bar work on the costas or chalet work as so many people I speak to seem to think.

I get that, countrygirl. Personally, I find living in the UK at the moment dispiriting, stressful, worrying, etc. I'm very concerned for my children. Being repeatedly told on Mumsnet how much fun people's children in the EU are having, and how our children are fucked, isn't helping much. I appreciate that I am on this thread voluntarily, but I don't want to convey an attitude of total gloom to my teenage children if there are some decent options open to them.
It isn't necessary to have a hundred great options available to you, as long as you can find one suitable one.
There are in fact many good options open to our young people - in the context of studying abroad or taking a gap year or working during the summer to gain some world / travel experience.
Far fewer than there used to be, but still very worthwhile options.
In some ways it's particularly easy for our children, because they are native English speakers. They can pick up English teaching / nanny type jobs relatively easily.
In the past your child might have spent a gap year doing environmental volunteering in 3 EU countries, as mentioned by a poster. Today, they can do environmental work for a year in Germany. That's open to international applicants. They can do all kinds of volunteering work with free accommodation and food using Workaway - all over the world, including in the EU. They can teach English in South America and in Eastern Europe. They can work and travel in Japan for a year. They can take a university degree in Germany almost free of charge, and once a student there they can take advantage of Erasmus. There are options there for those who are prepared to look and to put some effort in. Let's do the research and help our children to identify something that suits them.
I'm sure it will be hugely more difficult for those who want to work abroad long term, so let's help our DCs have a European or global experience while they're young.

[quote Grumpyoldpersonwithcats]@AuldAlliance
My son is in Belgium at present on an Erasmas scheme carried forward from last year. The current visa costs alone have been in excess of £750 and we've just been informed that one of the forms has been filled incorrectly and has to be resubmitted (in spite of it being translated by one of his Flemish speaking peers). If it isn't all sorted before 90 days is up then he has to come home and not finish his Erasmus course).
Any students from a poorer background won't stand a chance of studying abroad again.[/quote]
Well if the poor were as talented as Boris and his chums they would not be poor, so it is their fault anyway.

I hope that the universities will step up and help with form filling.
There is some financial help available for students from poor families who are at university. But only for some students. Again, research helps.

As the song goes "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone."

I hope the younger generation can channel the sort of spirit that those who actually fought in the war did - those who are now 94 plus - they knew the horrors of the war and many had known the privations of the 1930s, and were mostly in support of the idea of European co-operation.