Brexit Megathread - Part 2 because it's not over by a long shot

[vera99]

Well getting to a 1000 posts didn't take too long so here we are.... everybody welcome!

Woke up this morning to someone on radio 4 repeatedly trying to assure us that the supply chain won't fail, whilst miraculously acknowledging that the HGV driver shortage is significantly worse in the UK.

It was a little early to start shouting that there isn't 'a supply chain' there are multiple supply chains and they are beginning to fail and what is the definition of a supply chain failing anyway - zero items coming through is a pretty stark and extreme measure.

In the meantime Brexit is briefly mentioned in relation to care homes, though it seems rather reluctantly. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58884651

It's an odd government tactic to suggest that people don't want to work in various industries because conditions are so shit. I don't doubt it is true, but how on earth are you going to recruit people into a role that the government tell you, you'll be treated terribly?

I guess though, falling life expectancy will help solve the care crisis.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58893328

From the ife expectancy article

It found that while life expectancy rose in most places during the first decade of the millennium, from 2010 it began to decline in some places.

Remind us again who has been in power for that time...

It only takes visible gaps on shelves for people to start panic buying. We know from the COVID bog roll craziness that panic buying creates shortages at the best of times.

Thanks for answering Louise I don't know what you mean exactly with Civil national service in the sector for people in a certain age bracket? but it seems like you'd rather have that than motivated, skilled and experienced people from abroad?

They also have to be double vaccinated from November.

I don't have the answer either other than proper investment but recruiting skilled and motivated people from abroad at least is a better short time solution than Jimmy doing DOE experience for points.
We are speaking about vulnerable people here.

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Since last year, I always have a spare 24 pack of loo roll I buy a new one when I finish the old one

I'm back to gradually building up the rest of my stockpile, after having started to use it up when "Brexit was supposedly done" in January. I'm concentrating on ensuring that I have got all the Christmas non-perishable things in, like Twiglets, crisps, goose fat, giant Toblerones, proper ton of Quality Street

One of the advantages for the UK of immigrant labour in the care sector was that many of the workers were over qualified for the role and were able to bring a level of expertise to the job only matched by UK citizens with lots of training and experience. I worked for some years recently with young people going into health and social care training and they were often very immature and problematic.

Louise, you seem to be a good type and with Clav on her holidays like her boss at the moment the only Brexiteer fighting your corner nobly. In isolation some of your ideas have merit but we are talking about multiple failures over many fronts now as a result of nearly 2 million EU citizens going home and not returning many of them doing jobs that most Brits would rather not do. Even if leaving the EU as a market was a good idea (which it isn't) - this shambolic, lurching from crisis to crisis epic mismanagement by a clueless government of second rates led by the laziest and least talented PM of modern times is not the answer. Brexit was always a sloganistic snake oil cure-all for the disaffection of a number of societal issues -it's now a reality and is crumbling at pace before our eyes.

If you hold out hope that this ship will right and soon then I don't really know what to say except have a nice day !

Those pesky Europeans with better food, more intact supply chains and freedom of movement who the hell would want to be in bed with them at least we got Covid Done!

Covid cases yesterday:

France: 1,120
Spain: 1,277
Italy: 1,561
Germany: 4,872

UK: 40,224

If you need a bit of a laugh
twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1448021771790295044?s=21

Those of us old enough to remember ... what was it that finally did for Labour in 1979 ? I can recall ungritted streets, rubbish piling up and schools freezing.

@Peregrina

How do we hold them to account though? Normal rules don't apply these days.

Morning! I remembered that after seeing the misunderstanding and mis-information prevalent during the Hartlepool by-election in the Spring, I did feed back to Keir Starmer a few suggestions on communication with the electorate and very much holding the Conservatives to account at a local level, which was acknowledged. Possibly completely meaningless but better than sitting on my hands.

I only hope that after their conference, the Labour Party pull together a truly meaningful set of policies they can be clear on.

I enjoyed the clear informed passion of Ed Milli and on R4 this morning. We need someone like him, and many more like him.

(I have never voted Labour, just to add)

Also heard that someone in the Cabinet Office said that BJ doesn't read the detail of agreements he signs, and doesn't see his signature as binding. There were a couple of other enlightening comments!

A graphic in yesterday's paper showed a map of Europe coloured in to show the relative numbers of covid cases - with the UK and some E European countries with by far the highest rates.

We can still I think understand it in the ex-Communist states which have a long way to climb back from the impoverishment of those years. But why the UK? This is the first question a half-way competent Government would ask. Why when we had high vaccine rates which the Brexiters were so very keen to crow about, when it was getting one over the EU. Suddenly they are silent.

@wewereliars

The lack of basic understanding in the general popoulation in respect of economics, and modern supply chains, is why the refendum vote was such an act of absolute folly.

Yes - a Conservative vanity project, gone most horribly 'A over T'

I loathe Cummings and I think he's a man with a grudge, but I am sure he is right on ditching the NI Protocol

Imagine this thread if it was a contract on a house about to be completed and the seller after exchange demanded numerous changes that were never agreed upon. There would be incandescent anger and courts. That's what's happened in Northern Ireland protocol. Cumming's said the policy was always to lie to get the deal over the line they acted in bad faith all along.

Britain used to have a reputation for honesty and integrity and our word was our honour. We have fallen very far from that altar now. We are the sick man of Europe led by sick men.

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There are traitors at the very heart of government.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/21/parties-politics-peerages-boris-johnson-evgeny-lebedev-friendship

bylinetimes.com/2020/08/20/sweeney-investigates-what-changed-to-make-evgeny-lebedev-no-longer-a-security-risk/

And still not a squeak from Starmer.

I imagine he will look at the legalities before he speaks out.

In a serious country, Starmer would have respect as a serious, hard-working decent man who cared about things that mattered. But we are no longer that serious country and he brings a multi-paged carefully argued briefly to a knife fight against a devious feral lying thug.

@DuncinToffee

Thanks for answering Louise I don't know what you mean exactly with Civil national service in the sector for people in a certain age bracket? but it seems like you'd rather have that than motivated, skilled and experienced people from abroad?

They also have to be double vaccinated from November.

I don't have the answer either other than proper investment but recruiting skilled and motivated people from abroad at least is a better short time solution than Jimmy doing DOE experience for points.
We are speaking about vulnerable people here.

I get the point about DoE, that was kind of in my head actually when I wrote what I wrote. I also get the point about people "not wanting to be there" that another poster raised and this being wrong for caring work.

Yes the vaccination thing is another issue. There's a geniunely fantastic twitter thread from Lewis Goodall on all this from a couple of days back.

I think it's likely that in some sectors recruitment from abroad, including from the EU will be restarted. The issues I'd have with short term recruitment from abroad is what is short term and what entitlements accompany being given a visa to work short term?

Secondly, if the UK economy does pursue this path then we have the same supply of labour issue where people who could do these jobs here if they were being paid properly don't get the chance because of a ready supply of qualified workers. The opportunities for UK job seekers would be lost.

We are seeing market intervention at a level not seen since the War I'd have though (certainly since the 70s) and frankly, good. I'm unconvinced care works as a "market" in any case but if it isn't to be that. I'm sure I'm not alone here in having a relative in a care home and, like anyone would, my wish is for them to receive the best care they can get.

I'm unconvinced care works as a "market" in any case

For this conservative government everything works as a market. The solution @LouiseCollins28 is alluding to vis a vis care of the elderly is a socialist one. Welcome on board.

In the dock has to be Murdoch (now a US citizen) and his infantilisation of political discourse.

Remember this ...

Like locusts private equity, hedge funds and their ilk have their greedy mouths firmly into that sector the huge carcase of the NHS is the glittering prize. Like Savile's crimes they loot in open sight and yet folk continue to support them. Astonishing really and very dispiriting. The first past the post parliamentary system has completely failed us now. .

bylinetimes.com/2021/09/08/the-great-social-care-gold-rush-how-hedge-funds-and-private-investors-are-distorting-the-market-of-people-in-need/