Seriously??? You left. Deal with it.

[LookItsMeAgain]

I'm getting seriously ticked off day by day by the UK government wanting X or Y or Z which were and are benefits of actually being part of the EU but not wanting to be part of the EU.

Today on BBC Breakfast in the news it's easier travel movement within the EU. Digital certificates to prove that you've been vaccinated has goes live today for all EU countries and lo and behold the UK wants it's piece of the pie and to be part of the easier travel movements.

Well....no. You left the EU. You're not part of it anymore. You don't get to enjoy the benefits of easier travel just because...you join the other countries that are not part of the EU and take your place in the queue.

Or

You rejoin the EU and play your part in these decisions and be a grown up.

It's just sooooo frustrating.

Everyone had an equal vote - it doesn't really matter where people are from or where they live. The facts are that a majority of citizens, in what is still the UK chose leave and not enough citizens felt strongly enough about the benefits of EU membership to vote remain. Or to vote at all.

Europe needs our business so something will be sorted!

This was the argument peddled by the Brexiters five years ago, that they needed us more than we needed them. But somehow, the German car manufacturers for example, haven't come running to pump money in. So the answer is probably not as much as you would like to think.

We are still part of Europe, I am European.

But it is clear, whatever way you behave, vote, whatever you believe, if you are from England you are scum.

So what's the point. I won't buy from, visit, or engage with people who are so vile. And they can hate me too. Fine.

Well that's another thing - Europe isn't an homogeneous mass. Germany doesn't need tourism from the UK, but Spain and Greece might. Now, I'm okay with not travelling this year - I think it's irresponsible tbh and we should not spread the Delta variant to Europe. But if the EU makes travel in the future too much of a pita, UK citizens will find somewhere else to go. Some other countries will fill the gap.
It serves us all to trade and not try to score cheap points off each other.

I don't think that Spain and Greece are going to shed too many tears if the lager louts and stag parties don't come in the same numbers.

As for other countries filling in the gap - maybe, but none of them are near, which will immediately bump up the cost.

@HidingFromTheChildren

Anyone who is still pro EU after the EU threatened to hijack vaccine shipments on numerous occasions & which we purchased to protect ourselves during a global pandemic does not deserve an opinion about what to have for breakfast in the morning.

But perfectly ok for the UK to write into contracts that AZ cannot supply other countries? which the UK did in fact hold AZ too, whereas the EU has allowed millions of vaccine to come to the UK....

enjoy your breakfast.

Uk charged cost price Pfizer didn't. Almost all COVAX jabs are AZ.

Yup UK are scum.

We know.

@Peregrina

If we made such a wonderful job with our vaccines, then why is the Delta variant running wild in the UK?

It's a pity that the Leavers can only think of vaccines for their reason for leaving the EU.

@Peregrina - where do I start??

Firstly, when people voted for Brexit, no one knew anything about the forthcoming pandemic so clearly didn’t factor in covid vaccines as their reason for leaving 😂

Secondly, no one can argue that the UK’s vaccination programme has not been a success. You do realise that the vaccines don’t stop the virus from circulating don’t you? They help stop people from getting seriously ill/dying.

Thirdly, I actually voted remain but I have quite a few intelligent friends who own their own businesses who had very good reasons to vote leave. It’s quite pathetic how the remain voters constantly accuse the brexit voters of not knowing what they were voting for - just because you don’t agree with their reasons doesn’t mean they are invalid!

It's just a shame that our government believed the EU needed us more than we needed them. This has sadly turned out not to be true, so now we're throwing our toys out and having a hissy. We've just got to suck it up and reap what we've sewn.

@peboh

It's just a shame that our government believed the EU needed us more than we needed them. This has sadly turned out not to be true, so now we're throwing our toys out and having a hissy. We've just got to suck it up and reap what we've sewn.

It’s early days to be stating that @peboh

@Inastatus I agree to an extent. However it was very clear when they were negotiating a deal that the government walked in and expected the EU to just willingly hand over what we asked for, because we assumed they needed to keep up in their good graces. However clearly they don't believe that, and that's what concerning. We were cocky, and now the government are struggling to provide what they promised to us when they started discussing brexit.

Firstly, when people voted for Brexit, no one knew anything about the forthcoming pandemic so clearly didn’t factor in covid vaccines as their reason for leaving

You don't say! In fact, pandemics have been predicted, and it's been a matter of when. It hasn't stopped most Leavers citing the vaccine roll out as being the benefit of Brexit. So they happened to get lucky with their reasons there.

Thankfully the vaccination programme has been a success - because it was put in the hands of the NHS backed up with volunteers and not put in the hands of SERCO and the like. But it would have been the same had we stayed in the EU.

I hadn't asked about the Leavers' reasons or made a comment on their validity or not. But apart from Hedge fund managers making money, I haven't actually heard of any benefits. So far we have heard of fishermen being sold out, farmers fearing for their livelihoods, Erasmus stopping (despite a pledge not to), shortages of lorry drivers, shortages of fruit pickers. NHS staff overstretched because EU staff are leaving, roaming charges about to be re-introduced. Small businesses being burdened with red tape if they export to the EU. The situation in N Ireland intolerable, which was warned about.

OK a benefit - Nissan given a bung to keep their plant in Sunderland.

So perhaps you could go back to your intelligent leaver friends and ask them about the benefits. I also have (had) intelligent leaver friends - who so far can only list vaccines. The others have gone remarkably quiet.

having to be ruled from Brussels by unelected foreigners

What are you talking about?! I live in EU and have always voted in the elections for the European Parliament.

I no longer order from Amazon UK or M&S cos of the extra import charges.

I no longer recognise the UK I use to live in.

At the moment in Spain visiting my sister, having been doubly vaccinated and registered in my yellow vaccination book (needed for travel to Africa etc.). I didn't even need a PCR test to enter.

I feel for remainers and EU citizens that have made their life in UK.

having to be ruled from Brussels by unelected foreigners

It's the foreigners that are the problem. We in the UK are ruled by quite a a large number of unelected people, but they are not furrin, so that's OK.

I struggle with the fact that many Brexiters I know express anti-European sentiment yet still want to holiday there. Wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

@Peregrina - ok, you’re backtracking. In your first post you were claiming that the vaccine rollout isn’t successful because we have the Delta variant ‘running wild’.
The success of the vaccination programme has very much been helped by us not being in the EU and I disagree that we would be where we are now had we stayed in.

My friends have articulated many reasons they are happy with their leave vote.

What I said was If we made such a wonderful job with our vaccines, then why is the Delta variant running wild in the UK?

I do think we made a good job with the vaccines, because we used existing NHS staff backed up with volunteers to roll it out. But there is still the question of why the delta variant is running wild, which I would say it was with daily cases up more than 11,000 on last week, and today's paper had headlines about 1300 Scottish fans testing positive.

The Leavers who articulate their reasons seems rather quiet - it's vaccines and somehow they then lose their voices.

[quote Inastatus]@Peregrina - ok, you’re backtracking. In your first post you were claiming that the vaccine rollout isn’t successful because we have the Delta variant ‘running wild’.
The success of the vaccination programme has very much been helped by us not being in the EU and I disagree that we would be where we are now had we stayed in.

My friends have articulated many reasons they are happy with their leave vote.[/quote]
You nor i can say that either way.
Had remain won, Cameron would have stayed PM, the next GE would have been in May 2021, probably delayed because of CV.

Everything would have been different, i don't imagine DC telling everyone to shake hands with CV patients or delaying the LD, that delay alone is estimated to have cost 10k lives, so had there been no brexit....

But having got ahead of the game on vaccines, it doesn't seem to have got us any benefit, EU is way ahead on opening up and most can travel freely.

May 2020

Yawn.....its done, not going back, get over it

DC wouldn't have made crass comments about Operation Last Gasp either.

As for being done - Brexit most certainly isn't. Our relationship with the EU will be an ongoing process, unless the Tory Government can somehow manage to wipe it off the map and make good on all those deals with the rest of the World. After all, we did it once with the Empire......

The EU "allowed" them to come here? They weren't the EU's to decide where they go. We ordered them first, paid for them first so expected delivery of them first. The EU then expected us to divert vaccines (that they don't even appear to want) from production facilities in the UK to them to fill the quota they ordered AFTER us, which they tried to get at an even lower price, even though it's being sold as non profit.
It's a contract between our government and AZ, there is nothing the EU can legally do about it.

Stupid quote function. That was aimed at "thecatisonthewall" comment.

Hang on though - DC did take us into a referendum with no plan as to what he would do if the result didn't go as he wanted - he put party politics above what he claimed was best for the country. He also hasn't emerged as a paragon of virtue, with dodgy dealings to grow his own personal wealth - we have absolutely no idea how he would have handled Covid. He might have been fantastic, but tbh I can see him joining the EU's purchasing plan, not having any impetus to appoint someone capable of buying what we needed, or investing in development of vaccines. I think he would have sat back and let the EU handle it.
This is part of why I voted to leave - membership absolves politicians of responsibility. Too many decisions are made away from the electorate, and by people who don't have my country's best interests as a priority. What we need now is a decent opposition to current self-serving govt.

@thecatsatonthewall - I don’t think Europe is ahead of the game on vaccines at all. According to WHO, it’s only a matter of time before the Delta variant is ‘running wild’ in Europe and 63 percent of the population still haven’t had their first vaccination.