Westminstenders: Put Your Faith In The Home Office

[pointythings]

Because there doesn't seem to be a new thread yet. I'm no RTB or any of you other experts, but these threads need to keep going.

Give me a couple weeks and I'll be able to post cat placemarks!

How do they go through 40 years + with no 'brush with officialdom' in modern Britain that ever required them to produce photo ID?

Louise : You're showing your privilege (autocarrot tried to correct my initial mistype to "princess leg" ). That's exactly the sort of attitude that has led to Conservative policies that will disenfranchise voters if photo ID is required.

People - especially the poor, the homeless, the old, ie the vulnerable ones in society - can and do "survive" without photo ID.

Around 19% of English and Welsh residents don't have any passport (UK or other). They might have a driving licence - but if they're old, it might still be an old paper one, and if they're young, they might not be able to afford to get one. (Can't find the stats for Scotland but I suspect that they'll be similar, if not higher).

I repeat: it's not compulsory to have ID, let alone photo ID . And it's highly disingenuous to somehow insinuate that it is an individual's fault that they've managed (legitimately ) to navigate "life in the UK" without photo ID.

The underlying assumption of course being that coming to the UK is such a great prize, that we are doing all these lesser people from second rate countries a great favour by letting them come in.

What a sick sick joke that is. And we are about to find out what these fantasies of exceptionalism actually amount to thanks to the brexit twats.

I see many posters hereare exploring a few 'rabbit holes'; just a thought but do any of the scenarios and decripions given directly affect any Posters here? Or are they examples of the experiences of others or possible scenarios that could affect some people?

Just a simple question

Because empathy isn't a thing for Brexshittiers, after all...

How do they go through 40 years + with no 'brush with officialdom' in modern Britain that ever required them to produce photo ID?

Forty odd years of paying taxes ought to count as more than a brush with officialdom, but try telling the Home Office that.

My now late parents would have been unable to produce photo ID for the last 20 or so years of their lives. So I don't know why anyone is surprised at its lack. BTW I have only just got a photo driving licence, having turned 70 but not having moved house for yonks.

HateIs - read the thread - one person has already told you that they could have been arsed around by the HO but were able to put a stop to it.

I've described how I've not been affected, because I'm comfortably middle class and as a family we travelled.

But I arrived here in the UK in 1964 on my parents' passport from a Commonwealth country, so we were allowed in with ILR (I think my dad has mentioned something about this was the last year that this was allowed).

So I'd have had no paperwork.

If my parents hadn't sorted out naturalisation to become British citizens (iirc, in 1970 - I have my naturalisation certificate somewhere), I might have been vulnerable. My parents are intelligent, politically aware and well informed (hey left SA for political reasons and dad had applied and been accepted for medical school in the UK) CV- so I was/am ok.

A very quick piece of googling shows that until 1962 Commonwealth Citizens could come here with no restriction.

But somehow, they were supposed to anticipate that 50 years later a bigotted racist government would decide to change the rules.

Thanks prettybird for your explanation of your family's experience and thankfully you've all found your way through the 'system'.

Not sure what hayes is trying to say - doesn't seem to be much except some sort of binary hatred aimed at anyone that voted to Leave, which is directing hatred towards a lot of different people.

Poor thing

...posted too soon

But if something had happened to my parents before the naturalisation had gone through or if they hadn't bothered doing it, my db and I could/would've been stuffed

The only paperwork I have from that era is my naturalisation certificate.

In a current example: here is a 13 year old boy who has been given the right to remain, having lived here since he was 3, yet his grandmother, who has looked after him since his mother, who brought him here and was claiming asylum, died and left him an orphan, has only been given another 30 month visa. What is he supposed to do in 30 months time, when he is still only 15 and should be concentrating on his exams

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/orphan-refugee-schoolboy-wins-10-20803842

"Not sure what hayes is trying to say - doesn't seem to be much except some sort of binary hatred aimed at anyone that voted to Leave, which is directing hatred towards a lot of different people.

Poor thing"

Poor Hayes, having empathy for people in desperate situations.

@Peregrina

A very quick piece of googling shows that until 1962 Commonwealth Citizens could come here with no restriction.

But somehow, they were supposed to anticipate that 50 years later a bigotted racist government would decide to change the rules.

Peregrina - I think that that was what dad was referring to when he said we arrived during the last year that we were "allowed" to come - I think that there was a 2 year grace period for new arrivals after the 1962 Commonwealth Act.

It also explains why it was 1969/1970 before we got our "formal" citizenship (although my mum could claim
It earlier as she happened to have been born in Scotland while her father was working here as an architect supporting the war effort during WW2).

But prettybird all the ifs didn't happen; I truly appreciate the sentiments though having experienced very similar with the UK SEN Education system and DS (ASD).

It was tough, very tough and so many times I thought if it's tough for me - a mature, post-grad educated, experienced woman - then goodness knows how tough the many others less well-equipped than I are finding it.

@HarrietPierce

"Not sure what hayes is trying to say - doesn't seem to be much except some sort of binary hatred aimed at anyone that voted to Leave, which is directing hatred towards a lot of different people.

Poor thing"

Poor Hayes, having empathy for people in desperate situations.

Yes, it must be so nice to not give a shit about anyone else, as it appears the Brexshittiers on here don't...

Poor Hayes, having empathy for people in desperate situations.

I know, shocking, isn't it?

Even though I am fortunate to have not been affected, despite being from the generation that could have been affected, I can still have empathy for those that are victims of this deliberate "hostile environment" as well as anger towards those that implement it and anger (and disgust) towards those that condone, support and excuse such policies

"But prettybird all the ifs didn't happen;"

Not to prettybird, but to thousands of less fortunate others.

"I truly appreciate the sentiments though having experienced very similar with the UK SEN Education system and DS (ASD)."

I know how difficult it was to get a Statement, now an EHCP as a former teacher in a Learning Support Department in a secondary school. But you can hardly compare it to a young person being deported from the only country he/she has ever known.

I am never going to take the attitude that "I'm all right Jack". Just because I'm ok doesn't mean that I shouldn't care that others are not.

I was brought up to believe in communal responsibility, a sense of society and taking care of those less fortunate. These are beliefs that have given me a solid set of values to live by. I'd argue that they are typically Scottish

I am not going to apologise for that.

Where I perhaps am less virtuous is that I can't stop myself feeling a degree of pity mixed with disgust at those that do have an attitude of "But you're ok, why do you care?" I think that they are selfish and self-centred and lack empathy and imagination.

And so, empathy isn't just something that only Ref Remain voters have - so daft really to imagine otherwise.

Some posters here were off to their Swiss Chalets, decrying the loss of Erasmus in the post-Brexit, pre-Covid era - maybe they've got a new empathatic perspective - bearing in mind that Empathy is a different word than Sympathy and each with different meanings.

Maybe if we all believe that Brexit is some Tory Plot designed to make all UK Residents a bunch of dumbfucks just wanting to be fed BS then we might all be Happy.

@HarrietPierce

"But prettybird all the ifs didn't happen;"

Not to prettybird, but to thousands of less fortunate others.

Exactly

"Some posters here were off to their Swiss Chalets, decrying the loss of Erasmus in the post-Brexit, pre-Covid era"

And many weren't. Some, like me were wondering where the next month's rent was coming from.

Which posters were off to Swiss Chalets?

As for Erasmus - pulling out, despite de Pfeffle promising that he wouldn't, is depriving those less well off of opportunities. Little Sixtus Rees-Mogg and little Wilfred Johnson will still be able to go abroad to study because Daddy has made money, or in Johnson's case, Daddy will sponge some money from others.

God, I wish I had a chalet in the Alps  personally would prefer Meribel in the Trois Vallées - in fact, dh and I have a chalet in mind in Meribel if we were ever to win the Euromillions  ....and a rundown villa on a Greek island that we want to rebuild not going to tell you lot where

I actually managed to benefit from not just a year in France as an assistante but also a term at the University of Orléans as part of my degree (directly relevant as I was studying French ; if I'd continued with my Russian was accepted into Russian honours, joint with French, but chose not to continue it I'd have done a term in Russia too). Both before Erasmus but when university was fully funded - and exactly the sort of thing that @AuldAlliance has seen decimated because of Brexit and the withdrawal of reciprocal Erasmus funding. There is only so much that the Unis can do to plug the gap

It is all contributing to making the UK a smaller, more inward looking place - and that's before we talk about the increasing xenophobia

Oh well here's another one. Unfortunately with this rotten Government Democracy is leaving the UK.