Westminstenders: Put Your Faith In The Home Office

[pointythings]

Because there doesn't seem to be a new thread yet. I'm no RTB or any of you other experts, but these threads need to keep going.

Give me a couple weeks and I'll be able to post cat placemarks!

or much of anything at all really, to be fair, TheElements .

Destruction of the landing cards that did provide proof of their right to be here was the fault of the government and they've rightly been hauled over the coals for it.

How so ?

@Peregrina

And then Brexiters swear blind it wasn't about immigration. It's not the impression their arguments give.

By their actions ye shall know them

Louise has exclusively chosen to discuss immigration in this thread. No one made them - they were always free to promote any of the 9,999 benefits of Brexit they told us about. After all, it's not like these margins aren't big enough.

No one made me, that's true. Hanibal asked me a question about it, which I answered.

And By their actions ye shall know them

So basically, all the Quitlings who came on these threads, trying to sound reasonable, saying it was never about immigration, have, one by one, shown that it was all about immigration.

Funny that...

Louise

Do you agree with deporting people back to war torn countries, as adults, when they came here as children?

Just for info, I've been posting on these threads for several years on and off and talked I've posted about immigration very, very rarely in that time...but if your summation helps you Hanibal then crack on.

It's OK Louise, just because it's taken you years to admit it, it must be fine to finally get it off your chest...

Jas the range of different situations potentially underlying your question makes it very hard for me to answer (not any fault of yours) I just think it's very hard to generalise and apply a blanket "yes" or "no" to the "came here as children from x wartorn country....now they are adults" scenarios. So I can't give a blanket "yes they can all stay" or endorse an equally blunt "no they should all go"

The best I could offer as an answer with some level of nuance is that our primary responsibility here is to look after children seeking asylum from such situations.

When, potentially quite a few years later, those children reach adulthood then for me it comes down to "is the conflict that caused them to leave ongoing?" and "are they personally at more risk in returning to that country than a typical adult from the same country now would be?" because say the ethnic group they are part of were in power when they left and have now been deposed and people are being persecuted on ethnic grounds. A gross over simplification I admit but you'll probably get the point.

I suppose the other factor is "what's this person done while they are in the UK?" if they've avoided committing any criminal offenses, for example? I'd be much keener on them staying than if they've a rap sheet as long as your arm.

So if they're a criminal OR their origin country is now peaceful and/or they are at no greater risk than anyone else travelling in and out then they can be returned. If they've kept to the law, their country remains at war or they can be shown to be at increased risk on return for some other reason then they should have the opportunity to stay.

I love how you seem to think you know me Hanibal Your level of certainty about what I think and why is astounding

You've literally told us yourself what you think!

Louise Appreciate its not a simple question (or answer) BUT if you start with a "hostile environment" you are starting from a position where deportation is the 1st option, so 1000s of former child refugees have been sent back to countries that are very unstable, then main one is Afghanistan

A more compassionate policy would look at the negatives you mention - such as criminality, last.

I think to send anyone back to a war torn country they hardly know, is inhuman.
www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2016-02-09/revealed-the-thousands-of-former-child-refugees-deported-to-afghanistan-and-iraq

I also think it's important to consider the age at which a child came over here - if they arrived very young and had most of their childhood in the UK, growing up with British social mores, going through the UK education system, losing their native language and cultural ties - then sending them back is nothing short of cruelty.

Louise I get the impression that you made some off the cuff remarks about something you admit that there were parts, like the Windrush scandal, that you didn't really know anything about.

What I have taken from your comments is that Britons of Caribbean descent should at the age of 18 do something to 'regularise' their British citizenship.

How exactly one goes about regularising something which they had no idea was irregular is something of a mystery. Although now people of all non-British nationalities have realised that they must keep as much documentation as possible - and even 40 years worth of payslips might not be sufficient if someone in the Home Office is zealously pursuing a Hostile Environment target.

And this Government refuse to give EU citizens physical hard copies of their right to remain, only digital.

And this government have a habit of changing rules and making those changes retroactive. So you could do everything humanely possible and still have it not be enough.

But all that is completely ethical, obviously.

To even think about sending a person back to a country they were taken from as a child (as a child they had no agency) is completely beyond the pale and displays an unbelievable callousness. Their home country was war torn, they will have seen terrible things and likely experienced losses other people can not understand.

They have recovered, or not, and made a life in a totally different country. There is litlle chance that they have avoided psychological damage.

Apart from the inhumanity of this attitude on a personal level, it displays total ignorance of the role of the UK in these wars and proxy wars, and the role of the UK in arming powers who murder political enemies and civilians with impunity. Arms sales is one of our biggest exports,

The UK is a rich country because of its history of stealing, killing and looting around the world on a grand scale throughout history. We are not the good guys and never were. We have a responsibility towards the victims of our foreign policies, but we are told to condemn them instead.

It is a disgusting stain on the UK

"had no idea was irregular?" Surely the vast majority of Britons born here of Carribean descent turning 18 around now will have parents who were also born here?

For those who are older, who's parents did come here in the 1950s and 60s did they seriously think they'd just rock up to another country and "bob's your uncle?" That people might well have thought that in 1960 having been invited to come is entirely plausable. That they'd still be thinking it 40 years later and have done nothing to remedy the situation (like getting a passport) strains credibility to me.

How do they go through 40 years + with no 'brush with officialdom' in modern Britain that ever required them to produce photo ID?

And this government have a habit of changing rules and making those changes retroactive. So you could do everything humanely possible and still have it not be enough.

For example, someone from what is now an EU country arriving over 40 years ago, getting, legitimately, ILR, because that was what was needed at the time, and not realising that that ILR becomes invalid on 1 July 2021

Louise collins your flippant tone in talking about people " rocking up to another country" is incredibly offensive and shows you know nothing about the subject of Windrush. These people were asked to come and re build our country, they did us a favour fgs. And look how the and their desecendants were thanked.

The "reasonable voice of Leave" mask has not just slipped, it's fallen into the Mariana Trench...

How do they go through 40 years + with no 'brush with officialdom' in modern Britain that ever required them to produce photo ID?

Aside from passports, what other official documents with a photo, existed pre 1998?

As said, they were asked to come here.

For those who are older, who's parents did come here in the 1950s and 60s did they seriously think they'd just rock up to another country and "bob's your uncle?" That people might well have thought that in 1960 having been invited to come is entirely plausable.

Plausible!!!!!! Really? I had some respect for @LouiseCollins28 but that post is so right wing based with no account at all for humanity it uncovers what many people knew. People defined by authority as 'other' are not, and have never been, welcome. This is reinforced by Louise not actually understanding what refugees (invited or otherwise) have done for this country. That attitude is sickening and beggars belief.

"
For those who are older, who's parents did come here in the 1950s and 60s did they seriously think they'd just rock up to another country and "bob's your uncle?"

I really cannot quite believe that people think like this. But this is Brexit Island ... (England)