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Brexit

Westminstenders: The New Era

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/05/2021 16:38

Scotland.
The GFA.
Its not Brexit Honest.
Levelling Up Shitholes caused by Tory austerity.
Babymilk Shortages
Cronyism

But we did good with covid jabs.

OP posts:
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31
DoubleTweenQueen · 26/05/2021 09:16

'Benefits related to the UK as an independent sovereign nation' - sadly enough we probably enjoyed a stronger sovereign position while a leading member of the EU.

prettybird · 26/05/2021 09:36

@DoubleTweenQueen

'Benefits related to the UK as an independent sovereign nation' - sadly enough we probably enjoyed a stronger sovereign position while a leading member of the EU.

You don't even need to be a "leading" member, because of the veto that every "sovereign" nation has Wink

Contrast that with Scotland's lack of veto and influence within the UK Hmm

I'm sure that the EU will go from strength to strength without the deadweight of the UK and so will be able to sign a trade deal with India including more visas Wink ....and hopefully within a few years, Scotland will join the cohort of EU states as a willing member Grin or as a minimum has joined EFTA and the Single Market

yellowspanner · 26/05/2021 09:46

I am not, and never have mixed up the ECJ and the ECHR. Two very different organisations.

DGR, are you really saying that the UK Conservative Party is funded by human traffickers?
That is a very serious allegation which I am sure they will be interested to refute. Please give me evidence as I intend to report your accusation to them.

We are no longer paying the EU. I have never claimed we are not spending a lot of money to make Brexit work. But we are not giving it to the EU.

yellowspanner · 26/05/2021 09:48

I have no problem with Scotland becoming independent.

yellowspanner · 26/05/2021 09:50

Pretty,
You have no right on here, a public forum, to allow or disallow what I post. If I want to post economic arguments, then I will. I choose not to.

pointythings · 26/05/2021 09:54

^DGR, are you really saying that the UK Conservative Party is funded by human traffickers?
That is a very serious allegation which I am sure they will be interested to refute. Please give me evidence as I intend to report your accusation to them.^

I'm sure DGR is quaking in his boots. It says a lot about you that you're resorting to threats. It also says a lot about you that you are willing to watch small businesses in the UK go to the wall (or move their operations to the EU), see millions of people paying more for the things they buy, watch the resurgence of violence in NI - all so that you can bask in your happy glow of rose-tinted nationalism. It's sad that so many people seem to prioritise their flag-waving jingoism over the livelihoods of others.

prettybird · 26/05/2021 09:59

Not saying you can't use economic arguments but by the logic of your own statements, you wouldn't have been able claim that Scotland "shouldn't" become independent because you have stated that the benefits of the UK aren't related to the economy but as an "independent sovereign nation" which the UK always was Confused

But glad to see that you have no problems with Scotland becoming independent Smile so the issue is moot Grin

wewereliars · 26/05/2021 10:06

DGR watch out, or you will be reported. Brave new world indeed FFS

jasjas1973 · 26/05/2021 10:06

I am not, and never have mixed up the ECJ and the ECHR. Two very different organisations

So what have you against the ECJ? UK was represented on it & something has to arbitrate trade disputes.

Russian gangsters have put billions through London, the HO has given some of these people UK citizenship, which in turn means they can lawfully fund (and do) the tory party, its all on public record.

Human trafficking is stock an trade to criminality.

Even now the tories have done nothing about Belarus money and assets in the UK.

Given how the media treat Islamaphobia and antisemitism in political parties completely differently, i don't think the conservatives care too much about any reported allegations.

jasjas1973 · 26/05/2021 10:09

We are no longer paying the EU. I have never claimed we are not spending a lot of money to make Brexit work. But we are not giving it to the EU

Billions that could go to helping reduce the 5m people on the NHS waiting list but you'd rather see it go on customs declarations and supporting business no longer viable now we have left.

TheElementsSong · 26/05/2021 10:10

Brave new world indeed FFS

You mean Brave New Brexitannia Grin

QuentininQuarantino · 26/05/2021 10:35

so @yellowspanner as I understand it, as the immigration points you made are demonstrably the reverse and we will have more problems with illegal immigrants, your remaining benefits of brexit are:

a) we are not in the ECJ (can you explain why this is a good thing? what about trade disputes?)
b) It is better to be much worse off financially as long as we don't pay any money to europe.

That reminds me of this bloke I know who would rather not work and suffer financially than pay any child benefit to his ex...

Jason118 · 26/05/2021 10:35

We never gave money to the EU - we contributed our share as a member to receive the benefits we have now so demonstrably lost. So much has been lost and nothing gained.

borntobequiet · 26/05/2021 11:04

We are no longer paying the EU.

Yes we are

www.bbc.co.uk/news/51110096

Clavinova · 26/05/2021 11:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Clavinova · 26/05/2021 11:29

But I have just seen a headline that China has now replaced Germany as the UK's biggest trading partner.
So we import more Chinese crap than stuff from Germany now?

No doubt fuelled by PPE purchases and tech for home working and schooling. The VAT changes we introduced in January will probably reduce some of the cheap tat sold on platforms such as eBay.

NB - Feb 2021
China remains Germany’s biggest trade partner for the 5th year.

www.globaltimes.cn/page/202102/1216263.shtml

Clavinova · 26/05/2021 11:55

As a member of the EU we had a veto

A veto depends on the Government of the day using it. Governments don't always act how you want: Gordon Brown didn't have to sign the Lisbon Treaty, but he did, David Cameron didn't have to call a referendum, but he did.

DoubleTweenQueen · 26/05/2021 12:00

Yes, most of the issues we've had are down to the UK govnmt. Our membership of the EU has been quite beneficial, in contrast!

Clavinova · 26/05/2021 12:41

Can you name a single non-trade area where the ECJ had jurisdiction?

Some ECJ Immigration and asylum rulings here:

2 April 2020
The European Court of Justice (ECJ) has ruled that Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic breached their obligations under EU law by refusing to take in refugees.

The ECJ says in its ruling that these countries had failed to accept their share of 120,000 asylum seekers who had arrived in Italy and Greece, under a relocation programme agreed by the European Council in 2015.

www.euronews.com/2020/04/02/poland-hungary-and-czech-republic-breached-eu-law-by-failing-to-take-in-refugees-rules-ecj

2 Jul 2020
ECJ Rules That Family Of EU Nationals With Permanent Residence Status In One Member State May Travel Without A Visa To Another EU State.

www.gherson.com/blog/ecj-rules-family-eu-nationals-permanent-residence

7 Jun 2016
Imprisoning woman trying to illegally enter UK was wrong, EU rules.

European court of justice says France acted wrongly after Ghanian woman was found with false passport at Channel tunnel.

www.theguardian.com/law/2016/jun/07/france-wrong-imprison-ghanian-woman-enter-britain-illegaly-eu-court-rules

pointythings · 26/05/2021 12:49

Well, here's a small piece of good news at least: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/26/eu-citizens-win-right-access-personal-data-held-home-office

EU nationals will be able to access their data and hold the infallible Home Office to account. Could be very interesting.

borntobequiet · 26/05/2021 12:55

A veto depends on the Government of the day using it

Pesky issues arising from governance by Government again.

I’ve got a Boots gift card in my purse. Whether I end up with some new moisturiser or not depends on me using it. Decisions, decisions...why so hard?

DrBlackbird · 26/05/2021 12:56

Anyone listening to Dom's presentation to select committee? Amusing me no end.

Clavinova · 26/05/2021 13:00

doesn't seem to have clicked that when we had EU membership we could return those refugees to the country they entered the EU

I've found some stats - I might be missing something but the Dublin III Regulation doesn't look very effective to me;

Commons Library 2019 -

According to Home Office figures, between 2015 and 2018, 7,365 incoming requests were made to transfer people into the UK under the Dublin regulation, from which 2,365 people were transferred to the UK (some requests may still be pending).

This means that the UK accepted around 33% of requests. During the same period, the UK made 18,953 outgoing requests to transfer people to other Member States, from which 1,395 people were transferred abroad. This amounts to around 7% of outgoing requests by the UK resulting in a transfer.

In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/what-is-the-dublin-iii-regulation-will-it-be-affected-by-brexit/

DrBlackbird · 26/05/2021 13:02

He seems to have developed a conscience since leaving government. Is this part of a de-programming that happens as one reemerges into life outside Westminster?