Westminstenders: The New Era

[RedToothBrush]

Scotland.
The GFA.
Its not Brexit Honest.
Levelling Up Shitholes caused by Tory austerity.
Babymilk Shortages
Cronyism

But we did good with covid jabs.

Hannibal,
I have given many straight answers since these threads started. The problem is none of you like my answers.

@yellowspanner

Hannibal, I have given many straight answers since these threads started. The problem is none of you like my answers.

No. You really haven't.

You repeatedly claim that you have, but just like Boris, there is actually never anything to back it up.

@yellowspanner

Hannibal, I have given many straight answers since these threads started. The problem is none of you like my answers.

No you haven't just sweeping generalisations (we can make our own laws now) or just stuff that doesn't make sense or is wrong (we can deport more illegals) no we can't, we'll deport less.

We've the main Brexit negotiator saying he doesn't know what the benefits are either.

fwiw i had hoped that brexit would have helped fishing communities but even that hasn't happened.

For me the main benefit is that we no longer have to accept the authority of the ECJ.
But we can deport more people who are here illegally if we choose to.
And we no longer have to pay the EU.
And we have a points based immigration system. People from different countries will be able to come here and not just those from the EU.
Not sure how you want me to "back it up".

The problem is that you want answers based on the economy and for me the benefits are related to the UK as an independent, sovereign nation.

People not from the EU could always have come here - the rules that we helped the EU make never dictated how we treated the rest of the world. If that is one of your reasons for wanting brexit, it's a very odd one. Cameron set May an arbitrary target on curbing immigration which she failed to meet, as I recall. As far as illegal immigrants go, now we have left the EU, Patel is finding that she can't deport them back to other EU countries as she could before. So again, making more difficult to deport illegal immigrants, also seems an odd benefit of Brexit. Although realising that the sort of people who move heaven and earth to make a difficult journey to this country might actually be people who have some get up and go and might be able to make a valuable contribution to the country if allowed to will be lost on the likes of Patel.

"And we no longer have to pay the EU."

Brexit is on course to cost the UK more than its combined total of payments to the European Union budget over the past 47 years, Bloomberg Economics found.

As a member of the EU we had a veto, along with all other member states, and played a major role in formulating EUWE policy. We now have no say, but will have to abide by the rules if we want to trade within the EU.

We have always been an independent sovereign nation, whether we were in the EU or not.

As a member state we gained international leverage and soft power by being part of a trading bolc with 27 others. We are weaker, less important and will be poorer because we have left the EU. That is fact, not opinion

But I have just seen a headline that China has now replaced Germany as the UK's biggest trading partner. If kow towing to fellow Europeans was wrong, why is it better that we kow tow to the Chinese?

@yellowspanner on illegal immigrants we are worse off. The first thing a migrant will do is destroy their original papers. If you don’t know where they’re from, where can you deport them to? You can’t just guess.

When we were in the EU, the ones coming via France could be returned to France under an agreement which we don’t have anymore.

In fact, if you’ve seen any of what’s going on in Ceuta, you’d be really worried about this. Morocco has opened the gate in retaliation for Spain treating an opposition figure in a Spanish hospital and encouraged thousands of young migrants to go through, who are now in Europe. They’ll make their way up and France won’t have any obligation to take them back. France can send them back to Spain and frequently does, but its very easy to cross that border.

The points based immigration system is cruel and breaks up families. There’s a lovely British comedian living in France who has talked about how he’ll never be able to take his baby daughter to live in England with her family again because the uk doesn’t think “maman’s” job is important enough. It also doesn’t solve shortages in unskilled areas such as care work and hospitality.

Sovereignty was always there, you can see individual EU countries exercising theirs all the time at the moment with the pandemic. Borders closing etc.

But I have just seen a headline that China has now replaced Germany as the UK's biggest trading partner.

So we import more Chinese crap than stuff from Germany now?

How very environmentally friendly of us.

Just one of the many aspects of Brexit I just don't get.
The lie about taking back control - we already had it. But leaving the EU means we forfeit the right to deport people back to the EU.

All of which simply makes us more attractive to human traffickers.

Well done Brexshittiers.

@yellowspanner on illegal immigrants we are worse off. The first thing a migrant will do is destroy their original papers. If you don’t know where they’re from, where can you deport them to? You can’t just guess.

DNA, Innit ?

All of which simply makes us more attractive to human traffickers.

Who quietly fund the Tory party.

And it's well worth remembering that for some people just having more people in the UK - irrespective of legality - is an active part of their business plan. More people=lower wages.

@yellowspanner post below is a great example of how nationalist Brexit came about. No amount of facts makes any difference, until such time as a personal happening impacts on them directly, belief and feelings trumps facts and logic. Pandering to feelings is now what wins elections, not facts and figures (see B Johnson etc).

Lovely! more trade with a country with an appalling rights record and possibly gave us Covid.

I wonder what Yellow has against the ECJ ?

Who does she think will arbitrate if any UK company has a dispute with China? or we import a sub standard product?

No longer have the provisions of the Dublin convention, so impossible to send illegal migrants back to any EU country which they first arrived at.

Customs declarations alone cost more than our EU membership, theses are costs that will increase prices for UK consumers.

But i suppose it comes down to if you trust Johnson, a man who piles up the bodies, wanted to inject himself with CV (perhaps he did?) who said CV only kills 80 yo's, presided over europes worst death toll and even if you dismiss all of this, managed to eat £38k worth of organic take aways in 7 months.... whilst at the same time stopping free school meals for poor children.... oh and runs a party ridden with Islamaphobia... Good ole Boris, he has done his best!

Bbbbb but Vaccines!

For me the main benefit is that we no longer have to accept the authority of the ECJ.

ECJ only ever had jurisdiction over the specific areas we derogated, which surprise, surprise were related to trade. Which is why the ECJ still have a say over the NIP and the minimal trade deal Boris had. Any trade deal has to agree a judicial route for dispute resolution - for deals with the EU that is the ECJ.

Can you name a single non-trade area where the ECJ had jurisdiction?

@yellowspanner

For me the main benefit is that we no longer have to accept the authority of the ECJ. But we can deport more people who are here illegally if we choose to. And we no longer have to pay the EU. And we have a points based immigration system. People from different countries will be able to come here and not just those from the EU. Not sure how you want me to "back it up".

1) What you really mean is you don’t like EU law. But if you trade seamlessly within a trading bloc you have to abide by the rules of that bloc. The ECJ upholds that law throughout the EU. You seem to think it’s just there to be horrible to the UK. 2) Not true. As outlined many times before. In fact in some ways it will be more difficult to deport people now we have left the EU. 3) Not true. We’re still paying. Also, the cost of Brexit to the economy is significant. 4) We don’t. People from all countries have always been able to come here.

Can you name a single non-trade area where the ECJ had jurisdiction?

Yellow, like some posters before her, is mixing up the ECJ with the ECHR... which rulings have over ridden uk immigration decisions BUT in which we are still a member....unless we leave that too?

Which would be odd, because like EFTA, we helped set it up.

From Wiki British MP and lawyer Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe, the Chair of the Assembly's Committee on Legal and Administrative Questions, was one of its leading members and guided the drafting of the Convention, based on an earlier draft produced by the European Movement. As a prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials, he had seen first-hand how international justice could be effectively applied

Can you name a single non-trade area where the ECJ had jurisdiction?

Please sir, I know the answer to this one:

Environment.

The ECJ took the UK to task over urban wastewater in particular.

Pesky EU, wanting the UK to have safe, clean inland and coastal waters

@Paralithic

Can you name a single non-trade area where the ECJ had jurisdiction?

Please sir, I know the answer to this one:

Environment.

The ECJ took the UK to task over urban wastewater in particular.

Pesky EU, wanting the UK to have safe, clean inland and coastal waters

Even that is a trade area, the level playing field that brexiters poop their pants over. You can't have fair trade if one side ignores environmental laws and dumps wastewater in the local river but others pay the extra costs of dealing with it properly, thus pushing their costs up.

After reading this, i'm with Yellow, how dare they try and protect our children when the UK wont!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56282064

The reason the ECJ gets involved is because if countries ignore pollution levels, that gives them an unfair advantage in trade, so disrupting the SM's level playing field.

Sorry cross post @FatCatThinCat

@yellowspanner

The problem is that you want answers based on the economy and for me the benefits are related to the UK as an independent, sovereign nation.

I presume therefore that yellowspanner will be an enthusiastic supporter of the right for Scotland to become independent

No economic arguments allowed

.