Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The New Era

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/05/2021 16:38

Scotland.
The GFA.
Its not Brexit Honest.
Levelling Up Shitholes caused by Tory austerity.
Babymilk Shortages
Cronyism

But we did good with covid jabs.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
yellowspanner · 16/05/2021 23:28

MrsLaughan,
I am not showing my ignorance. I am saying that, in my opinion the points based immigration system is a good one. It should meet the needs of our country. You may or may not agree with me. That's fine. Just because you don't agree with me does not mean I am ignorant.

yellowspanner · 16/05/2021 23:31

MrsLaughan...what do you mean by "within the letter of the law". If the people were here legally the HO would not rule against them.

Peregrina · 16/05/2021 23:53

If the people were here legally the HO would not rule against them.

But you are just being told with someone with first hand knowledge that they were here legally and that the HO did rule against them for reasons best known to themselves.

Did you not hear of May's 'Hostile Environment' or that there were targets for removals of supposedly illegal immigrants, which instead caught up descendants of the Windrush immigrants, and that the HO had targets for removal? Amber Rudd denied there were targets, then found that she had been misled and that there were, but did the honourable thing and resigned.

Is your memory so short, or is it just totally selective - it doesn't affect you (or hasn't affected you yet!) so you are not interested?

wewereliars · 16/05/2021 23:58

Yellowspanner to be honest, I have held off responding to your recent posts because it's almost like kicking a puppy. You are staggeringly ignorant. You are so ignorant you do not know when you are making a total fool of yourself. Yor ridiculous comments about lawyers is just one example.

People are regularly threatened with deportation by the state,how do you think they defend themselves without lawyers who know the law and are able to present their case for them? Justice does not drop from the sky like rain. Step away from the Daily Mail and go and read a proper book. You are in dire need of knowledge.

mathanxiety · 17/05/2021 05:31

@Clavinova, you are referring to a completely different article there.

And good luck to all supermarkets in Britain wrt the chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef when /if a trade deal with the USA is signed.

Thanks to Tory austerity policies, very few will be able to afford anything other than American meat produced under dubious conditions.

mathanxiety · 17/05/2021 05:39

Maybe read your articles all the way through before posting them, @Clavinova?

One French woman, one Italian. Apparently there is no proper channel for au pairs to gain a visa to stay and work/study in Australia. The story you posted is about an ongoing ruckus involving an Australian politician and favours for his mates, not 'Italian exceptionalism'.

LostToucan · 17/05/2021 06:59

We will be more able to deport people who are here illegally without the lawyers finding endless, spurious reasons for holding them up.

Ah, the Patel “activist lawyers” argument.

Also known as “legal professionals who apply the law and follow Parliament’s express intention”.

www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/activist-lawyers-row-government-silent-on-alleged-knife-attack/5105966.article

TatianaBis · 17/05/2021 07:12

Wrt the authoritarianism issue - other people have noticed even if some here have not. From The Telegraph:

Use of fear to control behaviour in Covid crisis was ‘totalitarian’, admit scientists

Scientists on a committee that encouraged the use of fear to control people’s behaviour during the Covidpandemic have admitted its work was “unethical” and “totalitarian”.Members of the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviour (SPI-B)expressed regret about the tactics in a new book about the role of psychology in the Government’s Covid-19 response.

SPI-B warned in March last year that ministers needed to increase “the perceived level of personal threat” from Covid-19 because “a substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened”.

Gavin Morgan, a psychologist on the team, said: “Clearly, using fear as a means of control is not ethical. Using fear smacks of totalitarianism. It’s not an ethical stance for any modern government.”

Mr Morgan spoke to author Laura Dodsworth, who has spent a year investigating the Government’s tactics for her book A State of Fear, published on Monday.

SPI-B is one of the sub-committees that advises the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), led by Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser.

One SPI-B scientist told Ms Dodsworth: “In March [2020] the Government was very worried about compliance and they thought people wouldn’t want to be locked down. There were discussions about fear being needed to encourage compliance, and decisions were made about how to ramp up the fear. The way we have used fear is dystopian.The use of fear has definitely been ethically questionable. It’s been like a weird experiment. Ultimately, it backfired because people became too scared.”

Another SPI-B member said: “You could call psychology ‘mind control’. That’s what we do… clearly we try and go about it in a positive way, but it has been used nefariously in the past.”

One warned that “people use the pandemic to grab power and drive through things that wouldn’t happen otherwise… We have to be very careful about the authoritarianism that is creeping in”.

Another said: “Without a vaccine, psychology is your main weapon… Psychology has had a really good epidemic, actually.”

Another member of SPI-B said they were “stunned by the weaponisation of behavioural psychology” during the pandemic, and that “psychologists didn’t seem to notice when it stopped being altruistic and became manipulative. They have too much power and it intoxicates them”.

As effectively as overt warnings about the hazard of the virus, the Government has been accused of feeding the public a continuous eating regimen of unhealthy information, corresponding to deaths and hospitalisations, with out ever placing the figures in context with information of how many individuals have recovered, or whether or not every day loss of life tolls are above or beneath seasonal averages.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/

TatianaBis · 17/05/2021 07:20

Laura Dodsworth’s new book:

A State of Fear: How the UK government weaponised fear during the Covid-19 pandemic

Her piece in yesterday’s Mail on Sunday:

At a moment when the Indian variant of Covid-19 appears to be throwing our plans into doubt once again, it might be worth thinking about the good news as well as the bad.

Take, for example, the fact that there is no evidence of this or any other mutation of the virus ‘escaping’ the vaccines.

Or the fact that the 15 million most vulnerable adults in the country have already been jabbed and are at very little risk of hospitalisation. The real world evidence shows that clearly.

Or that, thanks partly to the vaccinations, the number of deaths continues to fall.

We have every reason, in fact, to believe that, even though the coronavirus continues to mutate, the end is clearly in view, for Britain and the rest of Europe, at least.

Yet much of our own population continues to live in fear, even those who have been vaccinated. Why is this?

One disturbing answer is this: our own government has systematically weaponised fear against us, supposedly in our best interests, until we became one of the most frightened countries in the world.

Aided by a group of compliant scientists, those in charge of us have used a range of different weapons, from distorted statistics to a misleading adverts on national television, in order to manipulate the population into doing as they think best.

The ‘messaging’ has been relentless, all of it gloomy, some of it terrifying, from adverts warning us not to ‘kill granny’ to tours of a hospital mortuary on national television news.

Those who dare to dissent on social media, including highly respected academics, have been hounded, told they have blood on their hands.

And the results have been highly effective. No one expected the lock down to be so well observed.

Or the wider consequences – for children, for businesses, for cancer patients – to be so catastrophic.

The driving force behind this campaign of fear has been a group of behavioural scientists and, in particular, the Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours, known as SPI-B.

This advises SAGE, the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies, which in turn briefs ministers.

In one of the most extraordinary documents ever revealed to the British public, SPI-B actually recommended that we needed to be frightened.

In a report from the beginning of the outbreak, dated 22 March 2020, the committee said: ‘a substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened; it could be that they are reassured by the low death rate in their demographic group, although levels of concern may be rising’.

Extraordinarily, it then said that: ‘the perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging’.

In other words, the government was advised to frighten the British public to encourage adherence to the emergency lockdown regulations. And frighten us they did.

There was no shortage of people willing to help, in particular the specialists in mathematical modelling, a once obscure pursuit that now features on prime time television

Time after time, the models have been proved wrong.

Yet their doom-laded predictions have been vastly influential, notoriously the claim by Professor Neil Ferguson of Imperial College that we were heading for 500,000 deaths unless we locked down.

But we must add into this the broadcasters, who seemed determined not only to promote the government line, but to ignore dissenting voices.

Lockdown enthusiasts such as Ferguson, epidemiologist Professor John Edmunds and behavioural scientists Professor Susan Michie have been ubiquitous.

Those taking a more optimistic view have had little airtime, or none.

But why would that be surprising when the news has been shaped to a quite unprecedented degree by a government determined to control the message – and those who consume it.

A whole panoply of government agencies has been involved in this campaign of messaging.

They include the so-called Nudge Unit at the Cabinet Office, which is responsible for bringing about incremental change in public behaviour.

There’s the Rapid Response Unit which, operating from within the Cabinet Office and No10, is charged wth ‘tackling a range of harmful narratives online - from purported “experts” issuing dangerous misinformation to criminal fraudsters running phishing scams.’

The unit works parallel to the counter Disinformation Cell, which is supposed to deal with threats to democracy.

There’s GCHQ and the Home Office’s Research, Information and Communications Unit (RICU).

Then there is the mysterious 77th Brigade, which is part of the army and is responsible for countering disinformation.

Many believe that the 77th Brigade has been actively countering lockdown sceptics on social media.

For my book, I spoke to an independent scientific advisor deeply embedded at Whitehall who told me that he and his colleagues are ‘stunned by the weaponisation of behavioural psychology over the last five years’ and that ‘psychology and behavioural science are feted above everything else.

‘The psychologists didn’t seem to notice when it stopped being altruistic and became manipulative. They have too much power and it intoxicates them.’

‘I never used to be cynical,’ my anonymous source told me, ‘you couldn’t find a more positive person. Now if I see a cute seven-year-old in the news, I wonder which government department is behind it.’

In the advisor’s opinion, ‘Everything about the government messaging this year has been designed to keep the fear going.’

Will these tactics of state-sanctioned manipulation be used combat future ‘challenges’ – climate change, for example?

Government orders to wash our hands, to keep our distance from each other, to remember ‘hands, face, space’ is one thing.

A legally directed biosecurity state which mandates staying at home is quite another.

We have never before quarantined the healthy and impeded so many human rights in one fell swoop.

Our rights to liberty, protest, worship, education and maintaining relationships were all impacted. And these are not trifling privileges, but basic liberties: our human rights as established in law.

There are many, many issues to be addressed when the official enquiry into our handling of Covid-19 is eventually allowed to start.

But the deliberate decision to terrify the population must surely be among them.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9584521/LAURA-DODSWORTH-end-clearly-view-Britain-live-fear.html

jasjas1973 · 17/05/2021 07:22

@yellowspanner

Mathanxiety, We do not have an economic crisis and we are not descending into fascism. We will have a system of immigration that meets the needs of our country rather than a free for all from mainly white,Christian EU countries. We will be more able to deport people who are here illegally without the lawyers finding endless, spurious reasons for holding them up. Neither of these are facist.
Lol Deport illegals? to where? Sudan? Afghanistan? Libya? even if they have any papers? All european countries have refused to take back failed asylum seekers that have travelled through europe, as is their sovereign right, now we are not part of the Dublin Convention.

UK is still signed up to the ECHR (part of council of europe) so your so called "spurious reasons" will still be used to fight poor home office decisions.

Have not read up on Windrush deportations?

Peregrina · 17/05/2021 08:23

We have never before quarantined the healthy and impeded so many human rights in one fell swoop.

And this has come from a review in the Sunday Mail, that notorious left wing rag. Err Right.

We then ended up with people telling on their neighbours, because they were breaking the rules. Do we wonder how the Stasi got such a grip? We of course had a PM who supported an advisor who blatantly flouted the rules, and refused to sack him, with his nodding dogs lining up behind him with the excuses. Until said advisor upset the PM's girlfriend, when he finally got the sack. All straight out of the worst of the Communist Regime's playbooks.

KateKeeper · 17/05/2021 08:23

Pmk

yellowspanner · 17/05/2021 08:26

Jasjas, I did not mention "spurious reasons". Our government have a right and a duty to deport people who are here illegally. They are breaking the law. Should we ignore law breakers.
And the lawyers who defend them often do so on spurious grounds. That is why the law is being changed.

yellowspanner · 17/05/2021 08:29

Wewereliars.
I have read all about windrush, of course I have. And I am fully aware of the "legal professionals". My son is one of these lawyers. It is a very lucrative part of the profession.
Why do you have to resort to personal attacks on me. It is not in the spirit of this site.

Peregrina · 17/05/2021 08:50

I have read all about windrush, of course I have.

Then you will forgive us for assuming otherwise because from the tenor of your remarks it looks as though the history of Europe including the UK over the past century has passed you by.

BlackeyedSusan · 17/05/2021 08:51

Bus passes are fecking expensive too. ( Too disabled for bus travel, not disabled enough for blue badge, most days at least and working hard to keep it that way)

TatianaBis · 17/05/2021 08:58

@Peregrina

Quite. It’s telling that both those pieces are in hard right rags.

borntobequiet · 17/05/2021 08:59

Farming Today, EFRA committee report:
How the new immigration policy could leave Britain's food supply-chain at risk.
As discussed on here many, many times...

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000w3n4

TatianaBis · 17/05/2021 09:00

@yellowspanner

Jasjas, I did not mention "spurious reasons". Our government have a right and a duty to deport people who are here illegally. They are breaking the law. Should we ignore law breakers. And the lawyers who defend them often do so on spurious grounds. That is why the law is being changed.
Deporting them is not exactly what they are doing. If they were just turning them away at the border that would be one thing. What they’re doing is incarcerating them in detention centres first.

Like Marta, the Italian who came to visit her uncle, and NHS consultant, who went with his young daughter to meet her at the airport. She did not show up, and it later turned out she had been taken to a detention centre and then deported.

TatianaBis · 17/05/2021 09:01

My son is one of these lawyers

An immigration lawyer?

Peregrina · 17/05/2021 09:02

Senior bus passes are free, I think. Mine now has a ten year old photo on it, which bears a passing resemblance to how I am now. Sadly, looking every bit of my age now.

pointythings · 17/05/2021 09:02

@yellowspanner

MrsLaughan...what do you mean by "within the letter of the law". If the people were here legally the HO would not rule against them.

Read this, yellowspanner: www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/cruel-paranoid-failing-priti-patel-inside-the-home-office

The Home Office is unfit for purpose. It makes errors and doubles down on them. If you think they're doing a good job, you really are on a different planet. Windrush alone should be enough to tell you what a failure they are.

prettybird · 17/05/2021 09:10

So who decides that the lawyers are arguing on "spurious grounds"?

The Home Office? Confused

wewereliars · 17/05/2021 09:24

Yellowspanner if your son is an immigration lawyer you will know that the work is not at all lucrative.

I am not sure why you have put legal professsionals in inverted commas.

Your repeated assertions borne of ignorance, particulary to people who have direct experience of the issues in question is incredibly offensive and not in the spirit of the site either.

LostToucan · 17/05/2021 09:35

@yellowspanner

Jasjas, I did not mention "spurious reasons". Our government have a right and a duty to deport people who are here illegally. They are breaking the law. Should we ignore law breakers. And the lawyers who defend them often do so on spurious grounds. That is why the law is being changed.
Activist lawyers are only as effective as the law enables them to be.

So what you actually mean is that the law itself and the courts are frustrating the removals. Isn’t that just “the rule of law”?

Swipe left for the next trending thread