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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

OP posts:
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Peregrina · 11/05/2021 23:32

For those of us who don't do Express links www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/france-suspend-immigration-ban-barnier-b1845533.html

But the devil is in the detail. As far as I can see, he's not talking about EU FoM. But of course, it will restrict the rights of third country nationals to move to France.

But knowing that France has Marine Le Pen should tell anyone that xenophobia isn't confined to one country. Although until maybe ten or twenty years ago, it was kept in check - memories of where scapegoating minorities led to were still fresh in people's minds.

HannibalHayeski · 11/05/2021 23:42

But isn't that what all the Breshiteers wanted us to do?

HannibalHayeski · 11/05/2021 23:43

And yes, it's only non-EU immigration. Which we always could control if we had actually wanted to...

HannibalHayeski · 11/05/2021 23:53

Ah, that's nice. That nice Rishi Sunak is selling our shares in NatWest off to his mates at a nice discount.

And nobody on the MSM thinks it's worth a mention...

mathanxiety · 12/05/2021 07:58

Can anyone explain how he proposes providing better protection for veterans while ensuring that atrocities like Ballymurphy can finally be examined fairly? Or is it just about dogwhistles?

It's all about the dogwhistles.

Mercer's use of the word 'tragic' is nauseating. 'Tragic' implies something accidental, not a slaughter which took place over 36 hours against a backdrop of the introduction of internment without trial, meaning the suspension of habeas corpus and a resort to utterly unprincipled operations.

The legislation under which internment was carried out (Special Powers Act) was originally passed in 1922 in NI and afterwards extended and amended. The internment that served as a fuse to the Troubles of the 70s was the latest in a string of such operations.

www.nytimes.com/1972/04/02/archives/inside-the-irish-internment-camps-inside-irish-prison-camps.html

I will only look on Johnny Mercer as an honest campaigner when he starts insisting that the politicians who made the decisions and the officers commanding the Paras get their just deserts. Until then he's nothing but an apologist for brutality.
www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/internment-explained-when-was-it-introduced-and-why-1.3981598

Bluethrough · 12/05/2021 08:24

[quote LouiseCollins28]Well now, that nice Monsieur Barnier the #FBPE crowd were cheering on for years has ruffled some feathers. Apols if you don't like Express links but I went to 4 places before that any they were all paywall/registration reqd.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1434679/eu-news-michel-barnier-immigration-ban-schengen-zone-brexit-news[/quote]
Talk about the 'Express totally mudding the waters and deliberately mixing eu and non eu migration.

Just another example of leavers trying to justify brexit.

Peregrina · 12/05/2021 09:33

It really is time that the Brexiters 'moved on' from telling us what the EU is doing wrong, or the French or the Germans. We Have Left. You Have Got Your Brexit. Get On With It.

Peregrina · 12/05/2021 09:35

I will only look on Johnny Mercer as an honest campaigner when he starts insisting that the politicians who made the decisions and the officers commanding the Paras get their just deserts.

Absolutely mathanxiety.

dontcallmelen · 12/05/2021 10:59

@Peregrina

I will only look on Johnny Mercer as an honest campaigner when he starts insisting that the politicians who made the decisions and the officers commanding the Paras get their just deserts.

Absolutely mathanxiety.

Totally concur.
AuldAlliance · 12/05/2021 11:08

News flash: Michel Barnier is a right wing politician in the Gaullist tradition. He was an MP for the RPR and a minister under both Chirac and Raffarin and is thought to be planning to stand as a centre-right candidate in the presidential elections.

The French right is currently under severe pressure wrt immigration and Islamic extremism, as we move towards those elections (cf here: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56899765 - this is a fringe movement, letter signed by only a handful of people, and not a category known for their open-mindedness, but it's still a bad sign as Le Pen is feeding off it). Barnier has suggested a 5yr "pause" while still allowing refugees and students to move to France.

The relevance of this to his role in the Brexit negotiations which are now over escapes me somewhat.

TheElementsSong · 12/05/2021 11:25

@Peregrina

It really is time that the Brexiters 'moved on' from telling us what the EU is doing wrong, or the French or the Germans. We Have Left. You Have Got Your Brexit. Get On With It.
Exactly.
Jenthefredo · 12/05/2021 12:05

[quote mathanxiety]Can anyone explain how he proposes providing better protection for veterans while ensuring that atrocities like Ballymurphy can finally be examined fairly? Or is it just about dogwhistles?

It's all about the dogwhistles.

Mercer's use of the word 'tragic' is nauseating. 'Tragic' implies something accidental, not a slaughter which took place over 36 hours against a backdrop of the introduction of internment without trial, meaning the suspension of habeas corpus and a resort to utterly unprincipled operations.

The legislation under which internment was carried out (Special Powers Act) was originally passed in 1922 in NI and afterwards extended and amended. The internment that served as a fuse to the Troubles of the 70s was the latest in a string of such operations.

www.nytimes.com/1972/04/02/archives/inside-the-irish-internment-camps-inside-irish-prison-camps.html

I will only look on Johnny Mercer as an honest campaigner when he starts insisting that the politicians who made the decisions and the officers commanding the Paras get their just deserts. Until then he's nothing but an apologist for brutality.
www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/internment-explained-when-was-it-introduced-and-why-1.3981598[/quote]
Yep

Peregrina · 12/05/2021 12:44

It seems that our our esteemed leader does not pay his debts

I wonder if a nice donor will stump up for him?

LouiseCollins28 · 12/05/2021 12:53

@AuldAlliance

News flash: Michel Barnier is a right wing politician in the Gaullist tradition. He was an MP for the RPR and a minister under both Chirac and Raffarin and is thought to be planning to stand as a centre-right candidate in the presidential elections.

The French right is currently under severe pressure wrt immigration and Islamic extremism, as we move towards those elections (cf here: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56899765 - this is a fringe movement, letter signed by only a handful of people, and not a category known for their open-mindedness, but it's still a bad sign as Le Pen is feeding off it). Barnier has suggested a 5yr "pause" while still allowing refugees and students to move to France.

The relevance of this to his role in the Brexit negotiations which are now over escapes me somewhat.

Pretty obvious really. Barnier being held up as some liberal hero by the #FBPE crowd for sticking it to Britain during the Brexit negotiations is not the person he was presented as being by them.
mrslaughan · 12/05/2021 13:49

The only people that stuck it to Britain was FrostJohnson and May before - by fundamentally not understanding the EU - and setting red lines that were only ever going to fuck the UK over.

I had expected better of you Louise - but you are still too wilfully ignorant to get it. Every politician has their faults - Barnier included. But he is now nothing to do with us...... stop looking back - look forward....

GlassOfPort · 12/05/2021 13:55

Barnier being held up as some liberal hero by the #FBPE crowd for sticking it to Britain during the Brexit negotiations is not the person he was presented as being by them.

I don't know Louise, I think it is possible to have nuanced views on people.

I found that conservatives like Rory Stewart and David Gauke behaved admirably in the run up to Brexit, but I don't share their views on austerity.

Likewise, I can believe that Barnier is a committed Europhile and a skilled negotiator, while also thinking that his views on non-European immigration are questionable.

All in all, I am too old for hero-worship Smile

AuldAlliance · 12/05/2021 14:41

Pretty obvious really. Barnier being held up as some liberal hero by the #FBPE crowd for sticking it to Britain during the Brexit negotiations is not the person he was presented as being by them.

It's only obvious if you accept that comparing the incomparable is a valid premise.

This is something that has increasingly come up on these threads - many pro-Brexit posters seem to think that pointing out what a politician in an EU MS has done "poorly" automatically cancels out what a UK politician/group has done "poorly."
(A bit like the logic that states that someone who no longer lives in the UK can't possibly give a crap about what happens there.)

Barnier did his job well because he's a very experienced and skillful negotiator, who had an equally experienced and skillful team working with him. I don't recall him being held up as a liberal hero, but as someone consistently doing his job competently, patiently and courteously (in a foreign language). Nor do I remember much crowing about him "sticking it to" people - the image doesn't fit him very well.

His ability to carry out the task required of him in an EU post doesn't bear much relation to his political views on a national level. And someone can perfectly well be pro-EU and opposed to non-EU-immigration, because life doesn't work in a binary either/or way.

If you're familiar with the French political landscape and Barnier's affiliations, his statements about a 5-year pause on non-EU immigration are fairly easy to decode - but it requires taking a step beyond "nice/nasty" dichotomies.

Peregrina · 12/05/2021 15:17

I was musing on skilled negotiators when thinking of Liz Truss. Now that we have ripped up more than 40 years worth of trade deals we have to make some more PDQ. It might not be that she is a bit dim, it might equally be that she is lacking in the required skill by virtue of having been thrust into the job with zero experience.

This BTW is a consequence of Brexit, unlike where Barnier stands on the political spectrum in France.

LostToucan · 12/05/2021 18:04

Quite enjoying all the No 10 squirming over Johnson’s CCJ.

Peregrina · 12/05/2021 18:26

Good old Private Eye!

Jason118 · 12/05/2021 20:53

Why didn't he pay it?

UltimateFoole · 12/05/2021 21:31

@Jason118

Why didn't he pay it?
Too blimmin' disorganised and careless of details.
Eve · 12/05/2021 21:49

@LostToucan

Quite enjoying all the No 10 squirming over Johnson’s CCJ.
..why are nos 10 and presumably Govt employees paid for by tax payers spending time on a personal debt issue!

Boris should be dealing with this himself and sorting it out himself - not using state employees time to sort.

AuldAlliance · 12/05/2021 21:55

@Jason118

Why didn't he pay it?
Because he's such a cheeky scallywag. Why would anyone get their uptight knickers in a twist about a piffling fine when the lovable, bumbling chap is so busy saving the economy and vaccinating the population that the poor dear hasn't even time to comb his hair only to ruffle it nonchalantly before taking the stage, let alone bother with such trivial matters as fines?
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