Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
UltimateFoole · 11/05/2021 12:16

You are totally right, Peregrina. It's no use just lamenting the situation - action has to be taken. We all need to be Stacey Abrams. Waiting for someone else to step up is too risky. We all have to decide what we can do and do it.

borntobequiet · 11/05/2021 14:55

I’ve never had a problem with the idea of ID cards (perhaps combined with NHS cards as I always have to look up my NHS number, though I’ve known my NI number off by heart since I started work). I think they might be useful, particularly for those who don’t travel abroad or drive (that would have been me for many years). Neither do I have a problem with the idea of showing ID to vote. What I do object to is having to pay for ID mandated by Government.

Peregrina · 11/05/2021 15:14

A fact that not all will realise - that the number of your war time identity cards became your NHS number. They used to be alpha numeric with 4 digits and some numbers - which I imagine started with low single digits and gradually increased.

Those of us born post war were also issued with them. DH still has his identity card and his card confirms to the numbering system XXXXnnn as does my NHS Card also XXXXnnn.

Before someone tells me that this is wrong, I know that NHS numbers have now changed - although I have no idea when. I could still quote my old number from memory, I haven't the foggiest what the new one is.

Peregrina · 11/05/2021 15:20

I don't now have problems with a simple ID card, (name address, photo, DoB, signature) - available from the local authority for free, because we are now asked to produce ID so often. I would have objections if we just had to produce them when someone asked. This is how the wartime ones got abolished - someone was asked to produce his and it went to court. I think from memory it was about 1954.

Peregrina · 11/05/2021 15:28

But it smacks of voter disenfranchisement and it could disenfranchise a lot of older Tory voters. My late parents wouldn't have been able to produce either a passport or driving licence during the last 10 years of their lives.

MIL never drove. There must be an awful lot of elderly women who didn't drive. MIL eventually travelled when she was in her late 50s so did get a passport. I have no idea whether her last one is still valid. I think we would be pretty peed off on her behalf if she had to get a new passport to vote since she is no longer fit enough to go abroad and no longer needs one for travel. She still votes and takes it quite seriously.

Piggywaspushed · 11/05/2021 16:27

Oh, I think Dr Alex Bulat may be my new favourite person!

Piggywaspushed · 11/05/2021 16:29

Also absorbing the news coming out of NI. That it took so long for those people to have their names cleared is so sad.

FromHereToModernity · 11/05/2021 16:32

@Piggywaspushed

Oh, I think Dr Alex Bulat may be my new favourite person!
I love that Alex Bulat PhD is a Doctor of Brexit - ie attitudes towards EU nationals in 'Brexit Britain'.
DateLoaf · 11/05/2021 16:36

Corruption is bang on. If they can brazenly lie and grab for personal gain on stupid trivial easily caught out stuff like holidays- it really makes me worry what immense, complex really hard to unpick stuff might be going on to have created that culture where there has been no whistleblowing about the smaller stuff. It’s very worrying.

Times when governments need centralised powers like we have now with a global pandemic, require absolute, scrupulous probity from those governments. Otherwise public trust and compliance goes, government bodies beyond politics will start rotting and anyone who relies on public services or just wants their taxes spent honestly will be completely fucked..

FrankieStein402 · 11/05/2021 17:45

it really makes me worry what immense, complex really hard to unpick stuff might be going on

Possibly - but that would imply a degree of intelligence in the ministers concerned - and in more than a decade we have had no evidence of that?

Clavinova · 11/05/2021 19:27

political illiteracy’ is being quite polite
Otto English says “deep-rooted political illiteracy” is allowing those in power to remain popular...
the two men seemed to confuse national political decisions for those being made on the ground in local constituencies.

The two men talked about policing and hospital services. Labour haven't exactly covered themselves in glory - quite the reverse:

19 March 2021
Following the announcement that Paul Williams will be the Labour candidate for the Hartlepool by-election, it has been confirmed he will not be standing for Cleveland's next Police and Crime Commissioner...

"Cleveland Police [covering Hartlepool, Redcar and Cleveland, Stockton and Middlesbrough] fell to being the worst rated force in the country under the watch of Labour's previous PCC, Barry Coppinger, who resigned in the face of his shambolic leadership in 2019...

following Coppinger's resignation, Labour announced Dr Paul as their candidate claiming he was committed to the role.

"Yet here we are, at the first point of asking, and Dr Paul has turned his back on Teesside leaving us with a second-choice Labour PCC candidate and Hartlepool with a failed former MP who has already been rejected by the people of the North East."

The decision to step down...also attracted criticism from Saltburn Labour Councillor, Craig Hannaway, who said online: “I can’t defend this opportunism and lack of respect for voters.”

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19174075.criticism-labours-candidate-hartlepool-steps-police-crime-commissioner-race/

Before he withdrew his PCC candidacy, Dr Williams vowed to reopen the custody suite mentioned by one of the men in the interview (if elected) - so it was a local decision;

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/pledge-reopen-cleveland-custody-suite-17916751

Scandal-hit Cleveland police has become the first force to be branded “failing” in all areas by inspectors.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/27/cleveland-police-branded-failing-in-all-areas-by-inspectors

19 April 2021
Labour's candidate in the Hartlepool by-election has been accused of being a "hospital hypocrite" for his involvement in a report supporting the removal of critical care services from the town.

Dr Williams was one of four GPs involved in a 2013 report which explained and took to public consultation recommendations to remove services, including critical care, from Hartlepool Hospital.

These recommendations were later fully adopted.

www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/politics/furious-labour-hartlepool-by-election-candidate-hits-back-at-hospital-hypocrite-claims-3206684

The hospital saga goes back a long way - 19 Jan 2007;

A hospital is set to close despite a pre-election promise from Prime Minister [Tony Blair] that there was “no question” of it being shut down.

The proposal, backed by [Labour's] Health Secretary, has caused anger in Hartlepool...

In the 2004 by-election, called when Peter Mandelson stepped down as local MP to take up a role as EU Commissioner, Hartlepool’s hospital was a key issue during the campaigning.

In an interview with the Hartlepool Mail newspaper on September 9 that year, Tony Blair said: “There is no question of the hospital closing or being run down. I hope people understand there has never been any question of the hospital closing. We are there to improve it and not run it down.”

metro.co.uk/2007/01/19/hospital-to-shut-despite-pms-vow-561702/

Piggywaspushed · 11/05/2021 19:43

But he couldn't have stood for the PCC! If he had he would have triggered an immediate by election had he won. You can't be both MP and PCC.

I may be misunderstanding the point there.

Clavinova · 11/05/2021 19:51

But he couldn't have stood for the PCC!

Yes - that is why he withdrew his candidacy for the PCC role. He promised much - said he was committed - and then dropped out. The
Police and Crime Commissioner role attracts a salary of £70,000/£80,000 pa.

The decision to step down...also attracted criticism from Saltburn Labour Councillor, Craig Hannaway, who said online: “I can’t defend this opportunism and lack of respect for voters.”

Clavinova · 11/05/2021 19:53

I may be misunderstanding the point there.

He clearly wasn't committed to the PCC role.

Piggywaspushed · 11/05/2021 20:04

Will you say the same when some of the current crop of PCCs decide to run as MPs at the next election? I know my local one tried -and failed- to be selected for a seat at the last election so decided to 'settle' for PCC.

Clearly not committed to being an MP.

Tracey Brabin is now a mayor (the only woman in such a role), which will trigger a by election , which the Tories may well win. Should we be questioning commitment there?

Clavinova · 11/05/2021 20:11

Also from the London Economic article ("deep-rooted political illiteracy") -

[Newly elected Tory MP] Jill Mortimer...blamed Hartlepool Labour MPs – and got the maths wrong, saying they have been in power “for the past 57 years” – but the constituency has been in place for 47 years.

She hasn't got the maths wrong - she included the predecessor constituency The Hartlepools - as per the BBC and the Guardian;

Labour struggled to combat a deep disillusionment with the party in Hartlepool, a constituency it has held since 1964...

Arborea · 11/05/2021 20:21

@Piggywaspushed

Also absorbing the news coming out of NI. That it took so long for those people to have their names cleared is so sad.
Cases like the Ballymurphy massacre are the reason why I find it difficult to understand whether there's more to Johnny Mercer's campaign to 'protect' veterans than jingoism. I see today he's said

Important to front up when Coroners have findings like that of Ballymurphy. Deeply tragic, and my heart goes out to the families. Fairness cuts both ways, and where credible new evidence exists prosecutors must examine. But we must be fair to all sides, including Veterans.

Can anyone explain how he proposes providing better protection for veterans while ensuring that atrocities like Ballymurphy can finally be examined fairly? Or is it just about dogwhistles?

LouiseCollins28 · 11/05/2021 20:24

@Piggywaspushed

Will you say the same when some of the current crop of PCCs decide to run as MPs at the next election? I know my local one tried -and failed- to be selected for a seat at the last election so decided to 'settle' for PCC.

Clearly not committed to being an MP.

Tracey Brabin is now a mayor (the only woman in such a role), which will trigger a by election , which the Tories may well win. Should we be questioning commitment there?

I think we could well tbh. Being a PCC and then running for MP is quite an interesting and new route. Metro Mayor to MP is another one. Someone like Ben Houchen will have done 2 terms as metro mayor if he serves his current one out before trying to become an MP. If he does 2 that might just be enough but it's pretty marginal IMO.

Some of the mayors of the largest cities or candidates have been MPs before of course, Burnham, Khan and Byrne being examples. Could possibly work the other way, though I wonder if being a metro mayor is actually more attractive?

Clavinova · 11/05/2021 20:25

Tracy Brabin is now a mayor (the only woman in such a role), which will trigger a by election, which the Tories may well win. Should we be questioning commitment there?

She wasn't my MP - what did her constituents say?
Although, Batley and Spen are in West Yorkshire - is Tracy Brabin still representing her old constituents as Mayor of West Yorkshire?

Piggywaspushed · 11/05/2021 20:31

I agree arborea. The idea of protecting ex soldiers in the way he suggest is not something I am comfortable with.

Peregrina · 11/05/2021 20:52

Can anyone explain how he proposes providing better protection for veterans while ensuring that atrocities like Ballymurphy can finally be examined fairly? Or is it just about dogwhistles?

No, it is most definitely wrong to give carte blanche to veterans who commit atrocities. At the same time, it is too easy to say that it is individual squaddies going rogue. The top brass also need to be held to account. Who sent in those particular regiments and what orders were given, how much preparation did they have for the role.

I was extremely pleased to see the verdicts.

borntobequiet · 11/05/2021 21:00

Wasn’t BJ first an MP, then London Mayor, then both simultaneously? (Am I remembering right?) Should we be querying his commitment?

Clavinova · 11/05/2021 21:14

Did he withdraw his candidacy 6 weeks before the election?

LouiseCollins28 · 11/05/2021 23:11

Well now, that nice Monsieur Barnier the #FBPE crowd were cheering on for years has ruffled some feathers. Apols if you don't like Express links but I went to 4 places before that any they were all paywall/registration reqd.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1434679/eu-news-michel-barnier-immigration-ban-schengen-zone-brexit-news

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.