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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

OP posts:
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Eve · 10/05/2021 06:40

.. ‘ political illiteracy’is being quite polite.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/video-hartlepool-voters-tory-labour-jill-mortimer-268639/amp/

Peregrina · 10/05/2021 09:22

Eve - with that clip we are in danger of going down the path that the voters vote the wrong way and don't know what is good for them. The sentence which summed it up for me was the new MP's last one:

"All I know is that we went out, we ran a good campaign, we told people our message of what we wanted to do here and they put their trust in us.”. I.e. we did some slick marketing. At the moment we can get away with this, because we will bung money at one showcase area. A Potemkin constituency if you like.

What about all the other once 'red wall' seats. Will the money stretch to a bung for them? This is where the Tories desire to make money for their chums first will come up against it.

Piggywaspushed · 10/05/2021 09:41

The Red Wall is certainly feeling like a chumocracy. What is truly dreadful (and I am quite sure some voters did reason this through) is that Labour voting working class areas will be left to rot as a punishment.

I don't know anything about the new Hartlepool MP but she does come across as an approachable , no nonsense woman. She would easily give the impression that she would work hard.

Peregrina · 10/05/2021 10:54

Chris Grey has produced an election special. What he says chimes in with so much of what I would like to say, but he has put it into words.

Do note though that while Johnson is crowing about winning the red wall seats, Surrey County Council lost 14 Tory members. They are still in charge, but it's not the ringing endorsement of Johnson's policies. As mentioned earlier, Oxfordshire County Council lost 9 Tory members, with one to be contested. Again not the ringing endorsement of Johnson's policies. It remains to be seen whether this is a blip or the start of a trend.

Peregrina · 10/05/2021 11:24

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/boris-johnson-under-investigation-caribbean-holiday

What will happen if he has been found to have done something wrong? B*gger all I would expect, and apparently voters are happy with this, if the discussions about the flat refurbishment are anything to go by.

LouiseCollins28 · 10/05/2021 11:30

Chris Grey's latest analysis is most interesting. His identification of a "new base" for Labour is something I've read elsewhere but well articulated here.

This however is weak, IMO

"But a base is all it is and that means reaching out, with concrete policies as well as a rhetorical narrative, to the new manual working class, not in heavy industries and often not unionised, working for example in distribution centres and often in precarious employment conditions, and by no means confined to Northern England."

I agree with Chris that reaching out is vital, but reaching out to people who mostly already vote for you, isn't reaching out very far.

His big arguement about reinvention is a strong one. For me however, he falls heavily at the last hurdle when he writes

'So a bold Labour Party would say something along the lines of: ‘like you, we think everyone’s as good as everyone else, we are about making your life better whoever you are and whatever you want to be.’'

His prior dismissals of the wishes and aspirations of "red wall" voters absolutely undermines this claim. It's bold but it simply isn't genuine.

Blair took advantage of Conservative dissaray in the 90s, sure, but he also was masterful in convincing those who'd not voted for Labour, or not for a long time, that it was time to change their minds. Johnson, for all that people dislike him has acheived something similar.

Peregrina · 10/05/2021 11:40

but reaching out to people who mostly already vote for you, isn't reaching out very far.

But these may be people who don't vote at all, because they think that the political parties have nothing for them. In that the parties need to show that they on the contrary they do, and that their vote can make a difference.

Jason118 · 10/05/2021 12:22

Follow the money. I'm sure G4S knew absolutely nothing about this, no, nothing at all, nothing to see here, move along please

Thousands recruited to front UK firms in 'tax dodge' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57021128

mrslaughan · 10/05/2021 17:23

Peregrina - also around me Amersham council, Berkhamsted council and Harpenden. All pig in a blue rosette territory and the Tories lost significant ground..... the word locally is this came as a complete surprise.

mrslaughan · 10/05/2021 17:26

@Peregrina

but reaching out to people who mostly already vote for you, isn't reaching out very far.

But these may be people who don't vote at all, because they think that the political parties have nothing for them. In that the parties need to show that they on the contrary they do, and that their vote can make a difference.

I agree- these are working people - but maybe more affluent and educated than "traditional " Labour voters . Voters like my husband and I - who people would have traditionally looked at presumed we would vote conservative. In fact my husband has in the past - it will be a very long time before he does that again.
LouiseCollins28 · 10/05/2021 17:43

@Peregrina

but reaching out to people who mostly already vote for you, isn't reaching out very far.

But these may be people who don't vote at all, because they think that the political parties have nothing for them. In that the parties need to show that they on the contrary they do, and that their vote can make a difference.

You have a point there. I must admit to finding it very hard to understand the mindset of non voters. Unless I were at death's door I cannot imagine ever passing up a chance to vote for somebody. I have some scepticism, my thinking is that some people will just not vote, whatever (kinda the opposite of me) but I agree reaching out towards those who don't remains important.
HoneysuckIejasmine · 10/05/2021 18:14

What's your thoughts on this chat of photo ID requirements for voting?

Traditionally this is done to disenfranchise poorer voters and swings the vote towards (in the US) the Republicans. Now that Right Wing parties are becoming the party of choice for some lower socioeconomic groups, are they starting to disenfranchise their own voters?

prettybird · 10/05/2021 18:23

Between 1979 (after the positive revolution vote that was disregarded because of the last minute insertion of a threshold that had to be met) and 1997, dh would "vote" in every election but spoil his vote: "none of the above" Hmm In fact, he had a missive argument with my parents (we're a very politically aware family) about it, not long after we got together (about 1994).

In 1997, Nicola Sturgeon doorstepped us, canvassing for the 1997 (when she'd been given the extremely safe Labour seat of Govan and managed to reduce Anas' dad Mohammed Sarwar's majority significantly, to the surprise of the SNP Grin)

She spent at least 45 minutes (refusing cups of tea) standing in the close having a very civilised discussion with him, trying to persuade him to vote. Didn't matter who he voted for, she just wanted him to vote for someone Smile

mrslaughan · 10/05/2021 18:45

The ID to vote is pure voter suppression.

Labour need a Stacey Abrahams. To get those who have lost hope to get out and vote - to get them to realise as a collective they can make a difference.

Peregrina · 10/05/2021 19:01

I put a posting on voter Id on the Is it time to move on positively thread. (At 15:46)

I said much the same that it seems like voter suppression, but that they might find that their new Red Wall voters are less likely to possess voter ID.

mrslaughan · 10/05/2021 19:01

Well Peregrina - that would be a positive.......

HoneysuckIejasmine · 10/05/2021 19:11

Yes that's what I mean - are they forgetting the demographic trends in their rush to be bastards?

Peregrina · 10/05/2021 19:40

Oh I like this about the Romanian County Councillor who has just got elected.

And Brexiters on these threads try to convince us that the vote was not informed by xenophobia.

Eve · 10/05/2021 20:15

@Peregrina

Oh I like this about the Romanian County Councillor who has just got elected.

And Brexiters on these threads try to convince us that the vote was not informed by xenophobia.

I do like her responses to the racist f*wit trolls.
HannibalHayeski · 10/05/2021 20:36

Ah, a take on the disastrous effect on fishing, from that notoriously left-wing rag, the New Statesman...

HannibalHayeski · 10/05/2021 22:40

A very interesting perspective on the gunboat diplomacy issue...

Ollinica · 11/05/2021 02:17

This reply has been deleted

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pointythings · 11/05/2021 09:36

@Piggywaspushed

I juts read that there was a caller to NBC who rated the Tories in Hartlepool because they had 'given them 9 foodbanks' and they never had those under Labour...
We're fucking doomed, aren't we?
UltimateFoole · 11/05/2021 11:39

The photo ID will be for first time voters - ie. young people who don't vote Conservative. It's just so blatant. Sad

Peregrina · 11/05/2021 12:01

If they make good the pledge to provide some form of electoral ID then this could be an opportunity for the various Opposition parties to go out and make sure that young people get them.

It's no good just lamenting First Past the Post, something positive has to be done to beat Johnson's corrupt bunch of Tories at their own game.

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