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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

OP posts:
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19
borntobequiet · 06/05/2021 07:05

What on Earth are you talking about "it it written on a bus".

Where were you in 2016? The moons of Venus?

Peregrina · 06/05/2021 07:33

"We send £350 million a week to the EU. Let's destroy our fishing industry instead." Doesn't have quite the same ring, does it?

mrslaughan · 06/05/2021 07:42

@borntobequiet

What on Earth are you talking about "it it written on a bus".

Where were you in 2016? The moons of Venus?

Guess they didn't see it in the Russian bot farms.....
HannibalHayeski · 06/05/2021 07:43

Jersey's largest oyster producer blames Johnson...

Clavinova · 06/05/2021 07:56

Jersey's largest oyster producer blames Johnson...

No he doesn't - he blames the Government of Jersey.

Peregrina · 06/05/2021 08:02

‘The government went out there and told them “don’t worry – as long as you have fished for ten days in 2017, 2018 or 2019 then you will be given a licence and can carry on”. But on Friday afternoon the licences were issued with all these conditions attached. It came to Monday morning and some could not go fishing.

So exactly which Government is he referring to? The article doesn't say. Was the deal negotiated by Jersey? If not, then which Government was it negotiated by?

HannibalHayeski · 06/05/2021 08:07

Hmm, the navy don't seem to be doing a very effective job so far.

But the I guess the only point was headlines for thicketeers on polling day...

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.
HannibalHayeski · 06/05/2021 08:10

Although this could make it more interesting.

What was it the Quitlings said? "Don't be silly, it would never cause a war"...

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.
Peregrina · 06/05/2021 08:17

I imagine that both sets of politicians were playing to their own audiences.

Easiest deals in history vs gunboats? Something doesn't add up here.

Clavinova · 06/05/2021 08:24

Johnson negotiated a bad deal

I can't imagine French fishermen being happy about any deal that reduces their access to UK/Jersey fishing waters.

So exactly which Government is he referring to? The article doesn't say. Was the deal negotiated by Jersey? If not, then which Government was it negotiated by?

The Guardian
France’s reaction to post-Brexit fishing restrictions around the island of Jersey has been branded “pretty close to an act of war” by fishing community leaders in St Helier.

They say they have been told 100 boats are being lined up in France for a 6am blockade at the main Channel Island port on Thursday threatening food and energy supplies.

“It was inevitable that the French would kick off,” said head of the Jersey Fishermen’s Association, Don Thompson.

Brexit had given Jersey the authority to manage its own waters and for the first time and was exercising its legal right to apply conditions in line with sustainability goals.

But not everyone agrees in the local fishing sector.

The island’s leading oyster and mussel fisherman, Chris Le Masurier, is scathing and says the problem is not Brexit but the local government’s “incompetent bunch of idiots”.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/05/jersey-fishing-row-french-threats-pretty-close-to-act-of-war

The question is - whether Jersey's government have overstepped the mark - or French fishermen are having a strop.

borntobequiet · 06/05/2021 08:25

Oops I meant the moons of Jupiter of course. But maybe Venus is better, seeing as they don’t exist.

Peregrina · 06/05/2021 08:33

Some selective quoting there from Clavinova.

This extract could have been chosen
New licences were issued on Friday, the last day of a four-month grace period after Brexit, which ended the 200-year-old Granville Bay treaty on shared fishing rights.

A 200 year old treaty ended by Brexit. Who would have thought Brexit had anything to do with it?

However the point I made originally, that Johnson initially washed his hands of it, saying it was for the Jersey Government to sort out, is a very typical example of how Johnson behaves. He's now muscled in and ordered an action which is likely to increase tensions not resolve them.

mrslaughan · 06/05/2021 08:39

Clav - if you think Johnson's deal is so amazing - name one industry it has benefited. Not a shitty deal to send cheese to Japan - when they have lost unfettered access to a huge market.
One that has truly had incremental market access.
Actually one is not enough- because an economy cannot be built on one industry. But rather than asking for 10 or 20 .... just give me 3 that are better off.

QuentininQuarantino · 06/05/2021 08:56

“French fishermen having a strop” is a pretty mean way to describe people protesting in the face of a real threat to their livelihoods. Hmm

The rhetoric is worlds apart.

“A peaceful demonstration by the French Fisherman outside the harbour”

“An act of war.”

Language is incredibly powerful.

Clavinova · 06/05/2021 09:04

Some selective quoting there from Clavinova.

Yes - I missed out;

Fishing leader on island [Jersey] says response from France is ‘like something you would see from Iran or Russia.’

The Guardian quote Jean-Marc Julienne; the president of the House of Normandy and La Manche, Normandy’s representation in Jersey

  • more from him here, Bailiwick Express;

M. Julienne said that relationships between Jersey and La Manche had been cordial until the fishermen received their licences at the weekend.

Some saw their allowed days at sea and what they could catch drastically curtailed based on the information that had been supplied by the EU to Jersey.

“Jersey and La Manche have done a lot of things together over the years and I don’t want this to suffer because of a poor reading… maybe the French didn’t read the document properly but, nevertheless, I ask that the Jersey authorities do all they can to reinstate the number of days and the number of licences.

www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/headline2/#.YJOgFdVKiUk

Quite clearly the oyster producer in HannibalHayeski's link is the same one quoted in the Guardian - the oyster producer blames the local government in Jersey - not Brexit or Boris Johnson.

Clavinova · 06/05/2021 09:07

QuentininQuarantino
Language is incredibly powerful.

So the Guardian's headline is irresponsible and misleading?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/05/jersey-fishing-row-french-threats-pretty-close-to-act-of-war

Peregrina · 06/05/2021 09:09

Brexit puts an end to a 200 year old treaty, to no one's advantage or so it would appear. Now if we just believe that this treaty just expired of its own accord and really everyone is happy, then it will be so.

At least the fish are happy.

QuentininQuarantino · 06/05/2021 09:15

Well it is interesting that UK press choose the Jersey Fishermens Association's quote over Jersey's Chief Minister John Le Fondré and Minister of External Affairs Ian Gorst.

It is certainly a better headline, which is what their job is, afterall.

Peregrina · 06/05/2021 09:18

Quentinin - are you telling us that they chose to ignore the people who will be responsible for sitting down and negotiating?

When the big bollocks stuff is over, I do expect to see a climb down from Johnson, which won't get reported.

jasjas1973 · 06/05/2021 09:29

So two European NATO allies each send boats to protect their "rights"

Did this happen in the 40 plus years we were in the EEC/EU ?

We ve had plenty of 'port blockades by fishermen before, so what has changed... ?

However, just as Patels threat to cut food supplies to ROI was very wrong, so is the french threatening power cuts, hospitals, people using at home medical equipment etc etc.... no justification.

Seems to me, that whatever the many faults with the EU, it gave european countries a means to resolve disputes without resorting to force.

Anyone who wants a laugh (or get depressed) join the Buy British FB group, 50k members, most of whom are stuck in 1940.

Clavinova · 06/05/2021 09:35

QuentininQuarantino
Language is incredibly powerful

The Guardian again;

Stéphanie Yon-Courtin, an MEP and former vice-president of Caen la Mer, said it was a “real shock” for fishers who did not receive licences on Friday to continue fishing.

She played down reported claims by David Sellam, the head of the Normandy-Brittany sea authority, that they could “bring Jersey to its knees if necessary” to resolve the dispute.

“These are only words you know...

But Yon-Courtin said she “fully supported” the French government, which has threatened “retaliatory measures” over the new rules including the possibility of cutting electricity supplies.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/06/uk-sends-gunboats-jersey-french-vessels-st-helier-brexit-fishing-rights

QuentininQuarantino · 06/05/2021 09:40

do you have a point somewhere in all that copy/paste Clavinova?

Clavinova · 06/05/2021 09:46

do you have a point somewhere in all that copy/paste Clavinova?

Seems obvious to me.

Peregrina · 06/05/2021 09:47

Whatever is said, people should know by now that Johnson will twist their words for the home audience to say: look at me and my big bollocks, sticking it to the EU/France/where-ever.

He didn't do so well with the Norway agreement on fishing, so we haven't heard as much spin about that. Can't blame the EU for that one, because Norway aren't in the EU.

QuentininQuarantino · 06/05/2021 09:49

You can keep reading and copy and paste all sorts about peaceful protests, etc. You even deleted this bit "We are not ready for war and that’s why we would like to discuss things. This situation is all the more sad because historically Jersey and and the French fishermen have always had very cordial and pretty good relations,” she told Radio 4 Today."

The point I'm making is that the headlines (even the guardian) have selected the most incendiary quotes.

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