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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

OP posts:
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19
Peregrina · 05/05/2021 18:15

I don't know why it's so difficult to understand that the man who represents the country should be able to negotiate. He doesn't necessarily have to do it all himself, but ultimately the buck stops with him and it's up to him to appoint people who can.

Blacktothepink · 05/05/2021 18:18

Oh what’s the point 🤷🏻‍♀️

Peregrina · 05/05/2021 18:22

The 18 to 30-year-olds taking part must have at least three years' training relevant to their work - at university level or equivalent - and be able to "express themselves in the language(s) of the host country".

Now let me guess. How many educated Indians will have a good knowledge of English? To virtually native standard, although spoken with an Indian accent? How many Britons will have the same knowledge of Hindi, Punjabi, Gujerati? Some will, but not the average white Briton. I did know one white Briton who had spent much of his childhood in India and spoke fluent Urdu and Hindi, but he was an exception.

Personally, I don't see why we shouldn't make an effort to teach Urdu and Hindi or other Indian languages in schools in those areas which have large populations of Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin.

yellowspanner · 05/05/2021 18:23

The man who represents this country can and does negotiate.

The man who represents France is threatening to cut off the electricity from Jersey. This is tantamount to a siege.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 05/05/2021 18:26

What responsibility does France have for Jersey's people and their supplies yellowspanner?

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 05/05/2021 18:31

Personally, I don't see why we shouldn't make an effort to teach Urdu and Hindi or other Indian languages in schools in those areas which have large populations of Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin.

Because schools have quite enough to do with their main responsibility to educate youngsters to operate in this country and its geographical and lingual environment?

Clavinova · 05/05/2021 18:32

It's about Great Britain actually agreeing to abide by some of the agreements it signed up to as a result of Brexit.

Not specific to the Jersey dispute but relevant nonetheless;
April 23, 2021

At the heart of the dispute is whether the criteria agreed in the withdrawal agreement make it difficult for fishermen to qualify for licenses, or whether the British are dragging their feet in delivering licenses.

French fishermen acknowledge the British are right when it comes to the small print of the withdrawal agreement, but say they don’t respect the spirit of the deal.

“The global deal looked superb, but it was too good to be true,” says Olivier Leprêtre, president of the regional fisheries committee in the Hauts-de-France. “When we started sifting through the 1,200 pages of the agreement, we realized that there are lots of blocking criteria. Ultimately, we have been almost completely excluded from British waters."

Leprêtre says criteria on netting, fish species and fishing zone demarcation are particularly problematic.

According to the EU commission, there is no specific tool in the EU-U.K. post-Brexit agreement to tackle a blockage on fishing licenses, apart from the general dispute settlement mechanism.

www.politico.eu/article/french-fishermen-threaten-to-block-calais-port-over-brexit-dispute/

Jersey -

A French government threat to cut off Jersey's electricity over a post-Brexit fishing dispute was "clearly unacceptable and disproportionate", the UK government has said. ...

Jersey issued 41 licences for access to its waters on Friday when an interim agreement came to an end.

The Jersey government said the permits must "correspond to the previous activity a vessel has carried out in Jersey waters" under the terms of the TCA and its new system was "in line with the data submitted by the French and EU authorities".

A spokeswoman said it took French complaints over the terms of the licensing agreement "very seriously" and would respond, but said it had acted in "good faith" setting up the regime.

"The government remains committed to the sustainable management of Jersey waters for the benefit of this and future generations,"

Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Ian Gorst, External Relations Minister for the Government of Jersey, argued there was no justification for such severe measures.

"It would seem disproportionate to cut off electricity for the sake of needing to provide extra details so that we can refine the licences."

On Tuesday, he explained there was "no time limit" for the French fishing industry or government to provide evidence of previous activity in Jersey waters and he wanted to "heal this relationship".

"If French fishermen or the authorities have further evidence they would like to submit, we will update the licences to reflect that evidence."

French authorities said "new technical measures" for fishing off the Channel Islands had not been communicated to the EU, rendering them "null and void"...

The UK's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said the self-governing Crown Dependency is "responsible for its own territorial waters".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-56991804

Oh dear;

France’s reaction to post-Brexit fishing restrictions around the island of Jersey has been branded “pretty close to an act of war” by fishing community leaders in St Helier.

They say they have been told 100 boats are being lined up in France for a 6am blockade at the main Channel Island port on Thursday threatening food and energy supplies.

“It was inevitable that the French would kick off,” said head of the Jersey Fishermen’s Association, Don Thompson.

Brexit had given Jersey the authority to manage its own waters and for the first time and was exercising its legal right to apply conditions in line with sustainability goals.

But not everyone agrees in the local fishing sector.

The island’s leading oyster and mussel fisherman, Chris Le Masurier, is scathing and says the problem is not Brexit but the local government’s “incompetent bunch of idiots”.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/05/jersey-fishing-row-french-threats-pretty-close-to-act-of-war

It's difficult to say whose fault it is but clearly the French are acting disproportionately.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2021 18:36

SapraBolt, comment in www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/france-jersey-uk-fishing-row-b1842188.html
Pretty much sums up the situation.

The French fishermen cannot get licences due to ‘administrative difficulties’ and ‘specific and limited’ breaking of international law (unilateral changes of the TCA conditions).

Electricity cut to Jersey will be due to ‘specific and limited’ ‘technical problems’.

..............

A further comment, same contributor:
Monday: == FRANCE HAS CALLED ON THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION TO INTERVENE after rejecting Britain’s provisional changes to fishing licences under the Brexit agreement, which would affect fishing rights in the Channel Islands.

France’s ministry for maritime affairs said Monday that it considered the new requirements put forth by the UK as “null and void” and called for a strict compliance on fisheries as negotiated under the Brexit agreement.

THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION HAD BEEN INFORMED of the new provisions and was expected to “ENTER INTO A DIALOGUE WITH THE UNITED KINGDOM to understand what the changes mean and to provide us with some clarifications", the ministry said.==

Tuesday: == The French government warned on Tuesday that it was weighing reprisals after Britain set new rules governing access for French fishing boats near the Channel Islands.

The French fisheries ministry said Britain had introduced “new technical measures” relating to licences for fishing off the Channel Islands which had not been properly declared to the EU under the terms of the Brexit deal.

The ministry said it was adhering “strictly to the deal” agreed on fishing under the terms of Britain’s exit from the European Union on January 1st.

European Commission spokeswoman Vivian Loonela said THE EU WAS ENGAGED IN “INTENSE JOINT WORK” WITH THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT to resolve the issue.

..............
How tragic the loss of electricity will be for the financial institutions of Jersey.

LostToucan · 05/05/2021 18:38

The man who represents France is threatening to cut off the electricity from Jersey. This is tantamount to a siege.

I don’t think Macron has threatened to do anything. Annick Girardin is the fisheries minister and is the one making the noise - probably because she’s dealt with useless Eustace before (who incidentally has said it’s nothing to do with him and it’s up to Jersey to sort out).

Seems all quiet on the Guernsey front though.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2021 18:44

How typical is it of Westminster to engage in willy waving against French fishing interests but to forget that France supplies the electricity to the pawn it is using?

It's a little like the deliberate foot-dragging on the bureaucratic requirements necessitated by the Irish Sea border having knock on effects in Northern Ireland's supermarkets.

In both cases, the tactic is designed to appeal to a small and specific constituency (English nationalists, the sillier elements of the English press, and Ulster Unionists) and results in a situation blowing up in completely predictable ways - predictable to all except the cowboys currently occupying Westminster, that is.

Peregrina · 05/05/2021 18:44

Because schools have quite enough to do with their main responsibility to educate youngsters to operate in this country and its geographical and lingual environment?

We teach French, German,Spanish and increasingly Mandarin, so why not teach languages spoken as first languages by a significant minority in this country? Although generally language teaching in the UK is in decline which is a pity. Because although 'they all speak English', a) they don't and b) people do appreciate you making an attempt to speak their language and c) if you gain a decent level of fluency you obtain a greater understanding of cultural norms of those who speak the other languages.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 05/05/2021 19:01

My opinion, although it will not be popular among some sections, is that people here need to be learning the native and official language, which is English. I generally believe immigrants (even if they're also called ex-pats) need to learn the languages of their host countries. European languages are spoken and taught because of the geographical proximity: Mandarin due to China's cultural and economic strength. I don't see a growth in the - many, which one would you pick? - Indian languages spoken here to be particularly valuable, or worth officially encouraging. But it's a debatable matter.

Peregrina · 05/05/2021 19:02

How typical is it of Westminster to engage in willy waving against French fishing interests but to forget that France supplies the electricity to the pawn it is using?

Well if they have Raab's understanding of how much trade passed through the Dover-Calais route, I imagine that it's a detail which completely passed them by. "What, we import electricity from France?" No one told them, probably because they couldn't be bothered to listen, having had enough of experts. With Johnson and chums trying to pass the buck to Jersey to sort out.

DGRossetti · 05/05/2021 19:06

Now let me guess. How many educated Indians will have a good knowledge of English? To virtually native standard, although spoken with an Indian accent?

Why does there need to be an accent ? Microsoft and IBM managed to hoover up Indians with no (or slight US) accents 15 years ago.

Clavinova · 05/05/2021 19:17

More fishy business;

20 April 2021
The European Commission has ruled that Ireland [ROI] cannot be trusted to police its fishing quotas under the Common Fisheries Policy.

The commission has issued a ruling withdrawing a special derogation to this country to weigh fish at factories because the authorities can’t guarantee that fraud will be detected.

The derogation had been in place since 2012 following extensive lobbying by the fishing industry. However, following a damning audit that highlighted manipulation in weighing systems and misreporting the size of catches, the commission has now ruled that fish must be weighed at the point of landing.

Further penalties in the form of the loss of thousands of tonnes of the state’s fishing quota and the withdrawal of up to €40m in funding from the commission are expected to follow as a result of the audit.

www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40270058.html

2 May 2021

The Irish Fish Processors and Exporters Association has called on the Minister for the Marine to "do his duty and stand up for the industry he is mandated to represent."

The Chief Executive of the Association, Brendan Byrne, has described as "draconian and brutal" the European Commission's decision to withdraw from the Irish industry the derogation it had held to weigh fish at factories rather than landing ports. The Commission has cited suspicion of fraud in the process, which is rejected by the IFPEA, to justify its decision. There are 160 processing companies in Ireland.

Mr Byrne has called on the Commission to produce evidence to prove the charges against the organisation. "We don't have any knowledge of what we are accused of." The major Fish Producer Organisations have also called for the production of evidence.

afloat.ie/port-news/fishing/item/50166-irish-fish-processors-exporters-association-calls-on-marine-minister-to-stand-up-to-eu-commission

mathanxiety · 05/05/2021 19:21

And?

The Irish fishing industry is happy to take EU money.

Part of the bargain is that you abide by the rules.

Clavinova · 05/05/2021 19:52

mathanxiety
@ Clavinova
“I am honored by the opportunity to be working with the First Lady to make the White House feel like home.”
Tham Kannalikham
Mmmmm, yes, I am sitting here with my eyes closed, just picturing it.
"Home" is this gilded horror, btw:

You took great pains in telling us that the Bidens had hired a minority owned firm to carry out the White House bathroom renovations (reminder - the company concerned already had an established track record working for US government services) - and then you insulted a minority ethnic interior designer (hired by Melania Trump) without actually seeing any of her designs.

NB The Trump penthouse interior designer named in your link (Angelo Donghia) died in 1985.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2021 19:55

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56996547
Barnier tells all.

He's not impressed when Frost turns up 45 minutes late for lunch, apparently without explanation. Frost then informs him in a "somewhat arrogant tone" that all the important stuff in their negotiations will be dealt with by the prime minister and the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen.

Mr Barnier later writes that Lord Frost badly advised Prime Minister Johnson on the dynamic of the European Council and "to save face, he therefore creates drama" by temporarily walking away from the negotiation table.

There was no real thawing in the relationship, judging from Mr Barnier's entries. Even on the day the post-Brexit trade deal was signed, their final exchange is "professional and cold".

Mr Barnier thinks he got the last laugh though: "He knows that I know that until the last moment he wanted to bypass me by seeking to open a parallel negotiating line with the cabinet of President Ursula von der Leyen. And he knows it hasn't been successful." ...

...In the early hours of Christmas Eve - the very day the Trade and Cooperation Agreement was sealed - Mr Barnier describes the British unexpectedly serving up a dish of revised fish quotas as "a text riddled with pitfalls, false compromises and flashbacks".

But in the end, the respective teams overcome this last hurdle and make it home for dinner with their families.

The term 'good faith' is one they don't teach in Eton, apparently.

mrslaughan · 05/05/2021 19:56

@yellowspanner

The man who represents this country can and does negotiate.

The man who represents France is threatening to cut off the electricity from Jersey. This is tantamount to a siege.

Welcome to the world on international trade negotiations. This happens all around the world - the UK has been insulated from this because it was protected being part of the worlds largest trading bloc. Now the gloves are off and unsurprisingly Brexiteers are shocked and horrified.

Look how Australia has been treated by China - and it has been going on for years.
Look at NZ's stance on not participating in the 5 eyes statement on the Uighers - that is based purely on the fear of how China will retaliate.

And don't fool yourself - UK will happily do it to anyone weaker than themselves. Unfortunately that is not the situation with France.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2021 20:05

...then you insulted a minority ethnic interior designer (hired by Melania Trump) without actually seeing any of her designs

@Clavinova
I didn't realise we haven't moved beyond patronising enthusiasm as a way of virtue signalling. Mea culpa.
Should I hold a member of an ethnic minority to a standard below that which I use for other designers?

The fact that she designed a desk using actual zebra skin tells me all I need to know about her 'vision'. This along with the fact that the Trumps hired her confirms my judgement.

There is a difference between insulting a designer as a person and casting aspersions on their work btw.

Clavinova · 05/05/2021 20:27

mathanxiety
@ Clavinova
Ms McElhatton continues:
Prime minister Boris Johnson has told French President Emmanuel Macron the UK wants to “explore every avenue” to secure a UK-EU trade deal, during a phone call on Saturday. ...
When it comes to titles of world leaders, I would be inclined to trust a history or politics graduate...
The titles are not fungible...

You have clearly contradicted yourself by describing them collectively as "world leaders" - they are fungible when it suits you.

To follow your reasoning - you should have posted;
When it comes to the titles of prime ministers and presidents they are not fungible.

But of course they are fungible - I assume "world leaders" also includes monarchs (absolute monarchs such as Saudi Arabia's King Salman) - as well as presidents and prime ministers.

Clavinova · 05/05/2021 20:32

The fact that she designed a desk using actual zebra skin tells me all I need to know about her 'vision'.

You ignored;

Eighteenth-century buildings, interiors, and culture—French, English, American, Irish—are definitely among Kannalikham’s passions, and she’s been a regular presence at events hosted by the Institute of Classical Architecture & Art, including an eight-day ICAA tour in 2015 of great country houses in Ireland and Northern Ireland.

mathanxiety · 05/05/2021 20:34

NB The Trump penthouse interior designer named in your link (Angelo Donghia) died in 1985.

He was a talented designer and a smart businessman.
When Trump later asked Donghia to do another project, he was told that the only way Donghia would work with him again is if Trump paid 100% up front; that project never materialized

Trump moved into the penthouse in 1983. His choice of Donghia was his way of announcing that he had arrived.

www.architecturaldigest.com/story/donald-trump-1985-apartment-looks-exactly-how-youd-imagine-it
The Donghia decor ^^ lasted approximately four years before it was gilded over.

Most articles about the tower cite Trump’s exaggeration of the building’s size as if it were correct. And in every article about Trump’s triplex I’ve seen, Angelo Donghia is named as the designer. That’s not quite accurate. The triplex has been Trumpified — an unnamed designer turned it into a Vegas funhouse. In Jane Mayer’s New Yorker piece about Tony Schwartz, who co-authored The Art of the Deal with Trump, she wrote that the ghostwriter’s impression of the apartment when he started working with Trump late in 1985 was that the apartment looked “unlived-in, like the lobby of a hotel.” Or, perhaps, the lobby of a casino. “All the gilded boiserie was put in after we finished,” says Chuck Chewning, who was creative director of Donghia Inc. for eight years and curated the Angelo Donghia: Design Superstar exhibit at the New York School of Interior Design in 2015. “Ivana hired a casino designer to redo it. There’s very little of Angelo left.”

Donghia’s entrance hall remains intact, but once you get upstairs his clean, luxurious decor has been vulgarized to the point of self-parody. A ceiling features paintings of scenes from Greek mythology. The Greek influence continues with a bronze statue of Eros and Psyche. Above the fountain is a painting of Apollo, riding his chariot.

What’s sometimes described as “French rococo design” is also the theme in rooms that guests never see. Violating the universal rule that you avoid overhead lighting in a bedroom, Donald and Melania’s bedroom features a massive chandelier. The bed? Gold. It’s been reported that Trump says the gold on the headboard and the bench is real.

borntobequiet · 05/05/2021 20:41

Are you all saying that it is Boris' fault that France are threatening to cut off the electricity to Jersey.

No. We’re saying this godawful Brexit is Boris’ fault.

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