Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Peregrina · 01/05/2021 17:45

Since AuldAlliance has made no secret of living and working in France, it would not be unreasonable to assume that she is fully aware of the state of French politics.

My main objection to Boris Johnson's slovenly appearance is that I well remember Michael Foot being slagged off for wearing the wrong cut of coat at the Cenotaph - never mind that it was a good quality one from Harrods.

I remember Cameron slagging off Corbyn's appearance.
Yet a messy slob like Johnson gets a free pass.

pointythings · 01/05/2021 18:00

@Peregrina

Since AuldAlliance has made no secret of living and working in France, it would not be unreasonable to assume that she is fully aware of the state of French politics.

My main objection to Boris Johnson's slovenly appearance is that I well remember Michael Foot being slagged off for wearing the wrong cut of coat at the Cenotaph - never mind that it was a good quality one from Harrods.

I remember Cameron slagging off Corbyn's appearance.
Yet a messy slob like Johnson gets a free pass.

Exactly this. It's the double standard. And of course the left can't win no matter what: if their leader dresses immaculately, that shows that they are elitist, out of touch and cannot possibly represent the people. If they dress less than perfectly, it shows that they are disrespectful, incompetent scruffbags who are not fit for government.

Meanwhile if someone from the right looks like a slob, it's because they are a lovable rogue and a good old English eccentric, and if they dress perfectly - well, of course they do.

The hypocrisy is so stark, and yet the likes of Clav will never acknowledge that it even exists.

wewereliars · 01/05/2021 18:07

Clavinova ready as always with the irrelevant comeback

Lurkerlot · 01/05/2021 18:11

[quote Clavinova]Feb 2021
Applications to study nursing soar as NHS inspires new recruits amid pandemic.

More than 60,000 people have applied to nursing courses this autumn, which is up nearly a third (32%) from the previous year.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-applications-to-study-nursing-soar-as-nhs-inspires-new-recruits-amid-pandemic-12221120[/quote]
Best way of guaranteeing a fast track emigration.

AuldAlliance · 01/05/2021 18:52

Unless you immerse yourself in the politics of another country there's not much else to go on [other than the décor in state rooms or the timbre of a premier's voice].

Hmm
Clavinova · 01/05/2021 19:32

other than the décor in state rooms or the timbre of a premier's voice

The décor in state rooms I have attributed to their female partners as per the media articles - so not particularly relevant other than the cost of the project. But tone of voice and countenance are important I think, especially if you are only hearing/seeing relatively short snippets of a politician who lives in a different country.

Not just me then...

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientist-reveal-politicians-tone-voice-influence-their-popularity-jeremy-corbyn-might-need-speech-coach-10445648.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29800893

AuldAlliance · 01/05/2021 19:50

Tone of voice and countenance are important

And yet...

mrslaughan · 01/05/2021 20:38

Lots of stuff in the media about the hospitality industry having shortages.
Anecdotally it's going to be interesting when everywhere opens. This week I have had a significant birthday. Yesterday went to lunch at my husband and my fav restaurant with my sister to celebrate. It's a restaurant we know well. Normally staffed with a mix of British and European hospo professionals. There were a few British hospo professionals , but not as many as normal. No European. Instead the bulk were young (I would say school leaver - 18year olds) British - inexperienced. It had the feel of summer job type stuff. The difference in service was really noticeable. We are quite chilled so it didn't really bother us (except the 45min waiting for the bill when the temp had plummeted and the chill was really started to set in....) but it was noticeable and I am sure some clients will not be impressed...... but will that become the standard- it's a shame if it does.....also poor service won't help getting the tourist industry back on track.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2021 21:15

Well worth a read

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-56937259

Bobby Sands: The hunger strike that changed the course of N Ireland's conflict

borntobequiet · 01/05/2021 21:25

I’ve generally found eating in restaurants underwhelming and not been particularly impressed by the food or service even in highly rated ones (having worked in a fair few in my youth) but I’ve eaten out for the social aspect and enjoyed it because of that. However I went for lunch on Friday in a place I’ve liked before and perhaps because of being outdoors on a day I wouldn’t choose to be outdoors and because I’ve been quite adventurous in my own cooking over lockdown, I found the food bland and uninteresting, the service disorganised (I guessed out of practice) and the whole experience a bit meh. Eating out on a regular basis unless pretty well off is a fairly recent phenomenon and I wonder if people will go back to it post Covid, especially if money is tight.

mathanxiety · 01/05/2021 22:52

If you are nitpicking over my use of the word 'premier' to describe both prime minister and president with one word, then I would argue that 'premier' is perfectly acceptable - you have a 'First' Lady after all.

@Clavinova
That wasn't nit-picking.
It was pointing out your conflation of British and presidential democracies.
In the field of politics, premier implies a parliamentary democracy. President implies a presidential form of democracy. The terms are not fungible in the realm of politics. America does not have a 'premier', nor does France, and no amount of working backwards from 'First Lady' will ever yield acceptable use of 'premier' to denote the President of either the US or France.

You seem very keen to fudge the difference between British and American political systems for some reason. I am here to point out that the absorption of the UK into the US political, regulatory, and economic realm hasn't happened yet.

It seems to me that you have failed to notice many differences between renovations in various places [...]

I disagree - the Salon Pompadour (second photo) looks pretty garish to me - I noticed that;

I am not sure what your quote of a partial sentence is meant to achieve. My point wasn't to call attention to the godawfulness of any particular renovation.

I'll repeat the full paragraph. Care to respond in good faith to my actual point?
It seems to me that you have failed to notice many differences between renovations in various places, the most significant of which is that the source of the money spent in other places is open to public scrutiny. Hardly anyone gives a rat's ass how much is spent on renovations as long as everyone knows where the money comes from.

Hint: it's about transparency.

mathanxiety · 01/05/2021 23:08

It's not as if Joe Biden will be expecting a second term in office - he's an old man already - can't Dr Biden make do with the current bathrooms? Champagne socialists. grin And on balance, I possibly prefer the 'new look' Rose Garden compared to the old one - something in between perhaps;

@Clavinova
Nobody gives a rat's ass about the ultimate appearance of any redecoration or renovation.

The cost is known, the source of the money is known, and that is all that matters.

I am going to repeat this question because it is central to the issue about Boris Johnson's redo of the flat he occupies (for perhaps a few more months, perhaps even a few more weeks?)
Where did the money come from?

And incidentally, fwiw, the 'champagne socialists' have hired a minority owned firm to do the bathroom renovation, thus a gesture in the direction of redressing historic wrongs, spreading the wealth, and a case of leading by example.

But why you think anybody in the UK gives a flying f*ck about Dr Biden's bathroom is beyond me.

It's not as if Joe Biden will be expecting a second term in office - he's an old man already - can't Dr Biden make do with the current bathrooms?
Keep up - Biden has already stated that he will seek re-election in 2024.

Peregrina · 01/05/2021 23:11

It's late and I may have missed it, but what is Clavinova's opinion on the fishing deal with Norway?

mathanxiety · 02/05/2021 05:09

And of course the left can't win no matter what: if their leader dresses immaculately, that shows that they are elitist, out of touch and cannot possibly represent the people. If they dress less than perfectly, it shows that they are disrespectful, incompetent scruffbags who are not fit for government.

YYY to that.

Don't forget they're 'champagne socialists' if they decide to renovate what is very likely a gilded chamber of horrors, if the Trump penthouse in NYC is anything to go by.

mathanxiety · 02/05/2021 05:11

Around 100,000 mourners came to his funeral, again confounding the expectations of the government, which believed the hunger strike had limited support.
From DGR's BBC article on the hunger strike and death of Bobby Sands, MP and comrades.

...suggesting that the British government is incapable of learning from past experience of almost exactly the same set of circumstances.

Peregrina · 02/05/2021 07:37

...suggesting that the British government is incapable of learning from past experience of almost exactly the same set of circumstances.

Most of us in Britain haven't got a clue as to what the situation was in NI and have very little understanding of the people there went through. Thatcher was no exception, hence the Bobby Sands situation. Johnson most certainly isn't an exception. NI Sec. Brandon Lewis - happy to break international law 'in a limited and specific way'. Fortunately the wrong man won in the USA and that idea was dropped.The one time Johnson managed to appoint a decent NI Secretary in Julian Smith, he gave him the push pronto. Can't have someone competent showing him up.

No one can say that we weren't warned that the NI situation would cause problems with Brexit, and two architects of the GFA Major and Blair warned us of such. Although Clavinova has tried to dismiss their intervention because it was only two weeks or so before the Referendum. 3,500 people killed, half of them civilians and we go that the appalling statement from a poster on an early Referendum thread 'Not my circus, not my monkeys'. An understandable sentiment from a member of the public, perhaps; inexcusable when it appears to be the Government attitude.

KonTikki · 02/05/2021 07:49

It's so weird.
If Boris had said, " Yes, a big fat Tory donor with more money than sense paid up front and I have since reimbursed him", everyone would have gone "Oooh", then moved onto other, rather more interesting things.
Even Laura K and the Daily Mail.
Instead of which a non issue is allowed to run and run.

EdwinPootsLovesArchaeology · 02/05/2021 08:10

Is it a pride thing with Johnson? He can't bear not to appear to be wealthy and carefree, after a career spent demonising the less well off?

Peregrina · 02/05/2021 08:31

From Kuenssberg's post:

Mr Johnson's former colleague told me: "Is there wilful lying? I would struggle to point to a direct example. Does he recreate the truth to suit him? Yes."

Isn't saying he would not putting a border in the Irish Sea a direct lie? Or saying that if there was any paperwork to be filled in, send it to Downing Street and he will rip it up, not a lie?

Peregrina · 02/05/2021 08:38

We need a Clavinova with a Cut n' paste of Johnson's actual words so that we can see whether they are open to interpretation.

I noted also that Kuenssberg said that there were people who would swear under oath that Johnson said he would rather the bodies piled up. He must be hoping that they aren't put in a court of law.

prettybird · 02/05/2021 08:51

Mr Johnson's former colleague told me: "Is there wilful lying? I would struggle to point to a direct example. Does he recreate the truth to suit him? Yes."

I think the examples of lies that you give, Peregrina , may be just that: examples of him recreating the truth to suit him. So, he doesn't want there to be a border in the Irish Sea and he doesn't think that there should be any paperwork, so ergo, despite all the evidence to the contrary and because the lazy oaf didn't actually read it as he's too important for pesky details he may actually have thought that that was the "truth" Confused

Likewise with the redecoration, because he did eventually cover the cost himself, he doesn't think that there is anything wrong with what he did. Unfortunately for him, that's not the way that the rules work Hmm

Haven't checked Twitter/the news yet myself but dh was telling me that it is being reported the final bill was even higher and that an anonymous donor paid the supplier the large overrun direct. Hmm

borntobequiet · 02/05/2021 08:57

Instead of which a non issue is allowed to run and run.

Precisely because in the grand scheme of things it is a non-issue, in the sense that it will be squabbled round in circles for weeks and months to no a avail until everyone is sick of it.
It’s what it’s distracting from that’s important.

Peregrina · 02/05/2021 09:24

Distracting of course from the 'let the bodies pile up' for a starter, never mind hiding the Brexit news.

Since he was joking about Operation Last Gasp, before he caught the virus himself, that sounds exactly like the sort of remark he would make.

DGRossetti · 02/05/2021 09:32

@Peregrina

Distracting of course from the 'let the bodies pile up' for a starter, never mind hiding the Brexit news.

Since he was joking about Operation Last Gasp, before he caught the virus himself, that sounds exactly like the sort of remark he would make.

It's hard to perfect Stalins observation about one death being a tragedy, and a million deaths a statistic as a paradigm of the level of - possibly required - detachment needed to run a whole fucking country.

In a world of limited resources, eventually someone get's to chose the saved and the drowned.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.