Westministenders: Unilateral Ignoring of WHO rules

[RedToothBrush]

Where we are:

On 1st January the EU started to apply checks on all goods from the UK coming into the Union.

However the UK decided to take a slower route to this, and planned that on the 1st April the UK we would be carrying out Sanitary & Phytosanitary paperwork for animal and plant EU imports like meat and eggs.

Then on 1 July we'd implement a full customs check on all goods arriving into the UK from EU member states.

Obviously we've struggled with exports as we weren't ready for this and its fucked business. But ultimately the import side of things has yet to hit the shit fan still.

It sounds like there is likely to be issues with imports of food in particular, so there is talk of delaying our plan of checks until later in the day. There is concern that the reopening of pubs and restuarants which will up demands of imports occuring at the same time as checks are put in place is likely to be 'problematic'.

Remember we get 2/3 of fruit, veg and cheese from the EU. And half our wine. And to date these largely have only been affected by haulage issues NOT UK customs issues...

You might want to keep that in mind.

We've got used to a high level of rolling stock, and don't think we'll be doing anything differently until import checks are brought in. Whenever that is. If they're not pushed back again, will definitely stock up on things like pet food in advance of Jan next year.

Has anyone posted a link to the Clown-King article yet? Read it the other day and thought it was excellent. Will see if I can find it...

www.theguardian.com/news/2021/mar/18/all-hail-the-clown-king-how-boris-johnson-made-it-by-playing-the-fool

Very well written and for me nails everything I can stand about the man.

Leave voters were absolutely determined to push through Brexit and I don't see many regrets from them

Coming a bit late to the party, but IIRC there's been more than one survey with Brexiteers agreeing they were ready to shaft a family member/personally lose money/let the UK slide into recession to have the pleasure of sticking it to the EU. So, no sympathy here either. They got what they wanted.

From that clown article about BJ, "Hear how his speech is not – in truth – eloquent, but rather a caricature of eloquence. The dominant mode is not fluency, but a kind of stop-start oratio interrupta; hesitancy followed by sudden spasms of effusion"

That's exactly why I hate listening to him: he's not articulate and fluent. He uses words to obscure and to obfuscate. He never answers the question asked of him and often tries to (after an unintelligible word salad) turn it around onto the questioner Even the Speaker has taken to telling him off, reminding him that PMQs is for him to answer questions, not to ask them

Contrast that with Nicola's Covid briefings and FMQs. You might not like the answers but at least they are intelligible

What is likely/possible to happen before the 1 April?

You really could not make this shit up. On the one hand you have Boris and Patel banging on about how Brexit allows us to attract the best and the brightest.

If you remove the bullshit, and just judge them by their actions ...

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/20/specialist-covid-infection-control-scientist-faces-threat-of-deportation-from-uk

An infection control specialist who has been offered a job as a senior NHS biomedical scientist to help tackle the pandemic is facing deportation by the Home Office, prompting fresh calls for a more “humane” approach to skilled migrants.

The government has refused Charles Oti, 46, from Nigeria the right to remain in the UK even though the job he was offered is among the government’s most sought-after skilled positions.

Its current list of “skilled worker visa: shortage occupation” has “biological scientists and biochemists” in second place, with acute shortages identified in all four nations across the UK.

Starmer's fence sitting isn't going to win the Red Wall back. Corbyn tried to do the same and lost them

Corbyn was a lexiter and that was known on here at the time, the fence sitting at the time was the right centre of the LP badgering for the peoples vote, led by Starmer, Corbyn had given his 'rules' on what deal who would have supported so I think he would have actively voted against the Tory deal or at least abstained, because even 'magic grandad' would have seen how bad this deal is for the UK workers, families and those with very little voice or ability to change anything

@DrBlackbird
Plus polling has also said that, along with all you listed, Leave voters were willing to see blood on the streets of NI again for Brexit.

I bet if Nigel Farage showed up in a fishing community now and started pointing the finger at the EU and saying it was all their fault and they're punishing you lie, lie, lie stir up a bit of hatred against foreigners the fisher people would all start cheering him a 100% vote Leave again.

Kendodd

Sad but true to both of your points. The FPTP system enables the fanatically loyal and rabid vocal minority to maintain power while the rest of the vote is split. Labour is no longer the equivalent Democratic Party so no hope soon of a change in how the country is being run.

The article on Johnson is excellent and gives plenty of food for thought.

I think, like Trump, Boris Johnson is a symptom though. There is something very wrong in this country that led to him winning a large majority, FPTP notwithstanding. People knew, or should have known, what a dangerous, self serving moral cess pit the man is. His appaling track record,private and public, is squarely in the public domain. Added to which there is no effective opposition. I had high hopes for Starmer but now am at a loss to know what he is trying to achieve.

Starmer is trying to ride 2 horses at once IMO. He's attempting to hold together a Labour voting coalition comprising mostly younger liberal city dwellers and the formely industrial "red wall" seats.

He's trying to be forensic in critizing the government, which is a good strategy because Johnson is often super fuzzy on the details.

He's also trying to hold together 2 sets of people pulling in different directions, the mostly younger met. liberals who want everything to be #BLM #CladdingScandal #Rejoin #FBPE and more older voters in towns who's principle concerns are other things. Obviously the above is a gross over simplification but it could explain the lack of consistency from Starmer/Labour.

People like me and maybe wewereliars who consume a vast amount of political messaging might see inconsitency more because we're taking in more the messages, not just those intended for our "segment" of the audience.

On the national stage though it's a difficult balancing act because to take an example of the proposed extra nuclear missiles, the red wall will see "security" and possibly "jobs" and the met. liberals will be #banthebomb and see it as a total waste of money and probably unwelcome sabre rattling.

@wewereliars

The article on Johnson is excellent and gives plenty of food for thought.

I think, like Trump, Boris Johnson is a symptom though. There is something very wrong in this country that led to him winning a large majority, FPTP notwithstanding. People knew, or should have known, what a dangerous, self serving moral cess pit the man is. His appaling track record,private and public, is squarely in the public domain. Added to which there is no effective opposition. I had high hopes for Starmer but now am at a loss to know what he is trying to achieve.

It's the Nazi playbook. Just point somewhere else and scream about them and they.

Do you want them in power ? Imagine what they would do.

As long as you haven't done anything stupid like allow your population to educate itself, it's a sure fire winner. Every time.

For the Nazis it was Jews and Bolsheviks. (Specifically Jewish Bolsheviks).

For the Tories it was antisemites and loony lefties. With an antisemite loony leftie grand wizard in Jeremy Corbyn. Who really became a one-man them.

YY to previous comments about the Guardian’s clown article. Johnson is a complete pastiche of a Churchill type ‘statesman’ and prettybird’s comments about his infuriating speaking pattern was spot on,. Is he actually seen as eloquent though, or just self-proclaimed? The direction the country is going in is pretty worrying, to say the least.
Agree that Starmer has been a disappointment and not sure if all the effort to placate the ‘red wall’ is worth it. I think the Hartlepool by-election will be very telling - already the outriders are shouting that the Labour candidate was a Remainer. Surely there must be a way of neutralising the Brexit issue - after all don’t most people think it’s ‘done’? Or perhaps Brexit/‘but Corbyn’ is just the excuse traditional Labour voters used to ease their conscience about voting Tory.

I guess lack of critical thinking is key, as DGRosetti points out, as well as Starmer trying to appeal to differing audiences, as LouiseCoilins 28says. Added to the illusion of exceptionalism this country has never properly got over, misplaced awe of the posh accent, and our appalling media. I have 2 children and very worried for their future. One very acadmically bright, the other less so. I am starting to almost hope they will make lives abroad. When I was growing up, hard work and a modicum of talent would generally secure a decent future. Now it's hard to see that. We are on a very dark path I think.

I'm worried about the future for my children too wewereliars, it does seem very bleak at the moment. Louise you are right about Starmer, he is trying to appeal to everyone and it isn't working. I agree that the red wall voters are lost now. I also had high hopes for him. Johnson is popular as he is seen as optimistic, it seems to be a winner with voters, even if he has no substance.

Agree that Starmer has been a disappointment and not sure if all the effort to placate the ‘red wall’ is worth it.

I agree and he ought to be making a pitch for the moderate Tory voters who find Johnson and his right wing abhorrent. Make a pitch on healthcare, secure work and housing, and education and I am quite sure that the moderate Tories who are now politically homeless could lend their vote, even if just to get Johnson and cronies out.

Ed Miliband, Corbyn and now Starmer have all been paralysed by not wanting to offend a section of their potential voters. So they refuse to oppose anything. It doesn't sell well, and Labour are not doing their job as the official opposition.

I'm worried about myself as well as my children, to be honest. If our children find a way out of the UK, which I hope they will, we'll be stuck here in old age on our own!

we'll be stuck here in old age on our own!

My own fear too.

@PawFives

YY to previous comments about the Guardian’s clown article. Johnson is a complete pastiche of a Churchill type ‘statesman’ and prettybird’s comments about his infuriating speaking pattern was spot on,. Is he actually seen as eloquent though, or just self-proclaimed? The direction the country is going in is pretty worrying, to say the least. Agree that Starmer has been a disappointment and not sure if all the effort to placate the ‘red wall’ is worth it. I think the Hartlepool by-election will be very telling - already the outriders are shouting that the Labour candidate was a Remainer. Surely there must be a way of neutralising the Brexit issue - after all don’t most people think it’s ‘done’? Or perhaps Brexit/‘but Corbyn’ is just the excuse traditional Labour voters used to ease their conscience about voting Tory.

Couple of things. I would struggle to consider credible people who think that Johnson is eloquent, he's really, really not a very good communicator IMO. However that's not quite the same as not being an 'effective' communicator, the shambling, the hair, the odd neat turn of phrase convey's a message that is clearly popular with some people.

On Brexit, I think we are in the "who's side were you on?!" stage still. Read a very interesting tweet the other day from a guy called Rob Burley who produced Marr and Politics Live for BBC about how panel selection for the contributors wasn't influenced by 2016 Leave/Remain vote any longer. I still find myself using that 'lens' and I'm sure others do too.

It may not be fashionable to talk in terms of a "disapora", but 1950 to 1980 saw a fuck load of specifically English brits leave these shores forever. From the ten pound poms to the brain drain.

DWs Uncle - who has some fantastically valuable skills in geology that were surplus to requirements in 1960s UK fucked off to Australia to marry and become Australian. He's only been back twice and I was lucky enough to meet him the second time. From a casual conversation, I can't see him - or his generations of families - being in a rush to let more Brits in.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/21/wales-sets-up-its-own-erasmus-programme

Wales is to go it alone from the rest of the UK and establish its own version of the Erasmus education exchange programme, saying it will “fill the gaps” left by the replacement Turing scheme drawn up by Boris Johnson’s government in Westminster.

(contd)

I don't quite understand the Wales Erasmus thing - if Wales could do it, why couldn't Scotland? It sounds as though it's not Erasmus, but some sort of shadow scheme maybe worked with individual contracts? It would be funny if Scotland decided to copy them, and England would then be the only UK country not a part of such a scheme.

I could see Turing die a quiet death. Or it could just become a USA/UK programme for the already wealthy who want their Ivy League experience subsidised.