I need some positives

[Vegeetas]

Quick preface, I have always believed that two people can think differently about a thing and remain friends. I am not asking this to throw stones at anyone or pick a fight, I am genuinely in need of something to be optimistic about.

My question is two fold. Why did you vote for brexit and what actual benefit do you think it will bring? Everyone I have spoken to that admitted to voting for brexit and Boris haven't been able to suggest even one thing that is positive that we couldn't already do.

Help!

And I'd like to see any benefits that'll be worth fucking up the peace in NI?

Oh, I forgot, Leave voters don't give a single shit about the peace in NI.

When the UK starts to obey WTO rules
and control its own borders
we will find out how independent we really are

There really is no point. There’s none so deaf as those that don’t want to hear.

A select few will make money from Freeports and Smuggling/Smugglers' Charter (to the detriment of the collective)

Calm Down Ken, how have you arrived at your assumption that "most Brexit voters don't give a fuck about NI"? You are quite wrong.

Maybe the Brexit voters you know, and going by most of your posts and threads, you know a lot of very wierd people, quite an high ratio of politically and ethically narrow-minded people given their extremely small representation amongst the UK population.

Have you thought about moving? Maybe a fresh start away from all these wierdos you know to somewhere more representative of the general UK people might do you the World of good.

Calm Down Ken, how have you arrived at your assumption that "most Brexit voters don't give a fuck about NI"?
Leave voters watched the killing of Lyra Mckee and the birth of the New IRA, they knew Brexit would destabilise NI and endanger the peace. They then voted to 'Get Brexit Done'. What would you make of that?

@TheHateIsNotGood
And here's some polling about it.

thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/01/nearly-all-english-tory-leave-voters-more-than-happy-to-dump-scotland-and-sacrifice-peace-in-ireland-in-return-for-brexit/

Well Ken, teasing apart your arguments and taking the GFA first and the very minimal role that the EU played in making it happen, I'd say using NI and the GFA as a Brexit bargaining point is of the lowest denominator, but using this as part of GFA is exactly what the EU did.

Lyra McKee, using this as defining Brexit is even lower, a little cheap shot that abuses the memories of Lyra to fulfil some personal agenda.

Everyone watched the murder of Lyra McKee. Including the people that Murdered her and those that knew who do it. It isn't Brexit that stopped anyone coming forward for years, but the Fear that some places in NI still have. You stupid little fool.

So, Calm Down Ken.

correction: "but using this as part of GFA is exactly what the EU did."

Should read:
"but using this as part of BREXIT is exactly what the EU did."

Patronising much?

Do hate off...

No problem, I'll meander on off, as I do - just sometimes things need to be said. I'll leave you to your patronage. Much.

I'd say using NI and the GFA as a Brexit bargaining point is of the lowest denominator, but using this as part of GFA is exactly what the EU did

As you seem to care about NI and voted for Brexit, tell me how there can not be a customs border either on the island of ireland or in the sea/GB ?

Because there has to be one, in order to protect the EU's SM and the UK from differing standards etc.... the EU naturally pointed this out to the UK side

There in lies the problem and one not considered by the brexit campaign or the vast majority of leave voters.

It has to be said that NI is now, effect part of the Republic.
They will be OK come April and July

the same cannot be said for England, Scotland and Wales

are the Brexiters on here really looking forward to full WTO compliance?
Really?

@TheHateIsNotGood
Personally I think it doesn't get much lower that knowingly voting to rip up a peace treaty that has saved the lives of 2,000 people (100 a year x 20 years) without a care in the world. Brexit means there has to be a border somewhere, despite all the pretending not to understand this, nobody's that stupid, people know this perfectly well. And if you really don't get that, well, I would never be so rude to call you a 'stupid little fool', after all, hate is not good.

Despite Hate trying to rewrite history (as so many right wingers seem to be doing at the moment), it was clear on these threads that most Brexshitters didn't give a flying fuck about the GFA or NI lives.

I well remember a particularly edifying response from one such when questioned about the effect on peace in NI - "Not my circus, not my monkeys"...

So, Calm Down Ken

HateIsNotGood (ironic username) - are you channelling your inner Michael Winner/David Cameron?

Well my take on the GFA is that USA involvement was paramount and without suppressing Noraid and all it's misplaced 'glorification' of The Troubles, there wouldn't be any GFA at all.

Really nart to do with the EU, they just chose to make it so; but then that is to be expected from any side that wants to get the best Deal out of any Negotiations.

@TheHateIsNotGood

Well my take on the GFA is that USA involvement was paramount and without suppressing Noraid and all it's misplaced 'glorification' of The Troubles, there wouldn't be any GFA at all.

Really nart to do with the EU, they just chose to make it so; but then that is to be expected from any side that wants to get the best Deal out of any Negotiations.

Try reading

The USA HAD to intervene to stop people killing each other

The border was removed as part of the GFA

It was never envisaged that either country would be stupid enough to take steps to put it back in place

Customs border between different regulatory regimes are a WTO requirement

Brexiters love the WTO rules (that the UK is currently breaking)

Well my take on the GFA is that USA involvement was paramount and without suppressing Noraid and all it's misplaced 'glorification' of The Troubles, there wouldn't be any GFA at all

It's irrelevant who did what to secure peace in NI, Brexit means a border, just as there is one at every EU/non EU country Turkey and Norway for example.

The issue of NI was never really thought about by Cameron or the Brexitiers, inc you.

You voted to re instate the conflict in NI.

Thanks for the reading tip LQ, meanwhile I can only go my own years of experience and memories, the US Noraid Bars where rich American kids used to go and spend $s coz a great, grand parent they never knew might have lived in Ireland.

And the gloomy 'Irish' Doormen making sure the IRA were getting their cut. Aye, the 'glory' days...blame The Brits then and blame The Brits now.

How bout we stop blaming and start living.

Noraid posters were as they were

the point is that the return of the border is a consequence of Brexit lack of planning and NOTHING else

same as the Dover rules
that the UK really should be implementing if it wants to
take back control

We'll just have to agree that we disagree LQ - the NI Border didn't have to be a Brexit Bargaining Tool of the Greatest Importance - the EU chose to make it so in order to drive their hardest bargain.

That's all. Personally I find it a low manouevre, with little respect for the People of NI, but that's par for the course for the EU, and one of the reasons I voted to Leave.

As well that they wanted to rip up the CTA which was the 'decider' for me; I could have so easily voted differently otherwise.

We'll just have to agree that we disagree LQ - the NI Border didn't have to be a Brexit Bargaining Tool of the Greatest Importance - the EU chose to make it so in order to drive their hardest bargain.
Bullshit.

Under WTO rules, borders between different customs groupings must be properly enforced
hence why there are V V V strict rules between Ukraine and EU
or between China and India
or Venezuela and Brazil

UK leaves EU
Border rules kick in

EU has no choice
its WTO rules

If you are an animal lover you will be relieved that the cruel, appalling and unpopular live export of animals is coming to an end. It could not be banned while we were still members of the EU.
It’s great that land subsidies to the country’s richest landowners have come to an end too.

the NI Border didn't have to be a Brexit Bargaining Tool of the Greatest Importance - the EU chose to make it so in order to drive their hardest bargain.

No it did not have to be, and if May had not decided to take us out of the Single Market and Customs Union, it wouldn't be. Even then she at least had enough sense to realise that keeping the whole of the UK in the Customs Union would alleviate many of the problems. Johnson decided otherwise. If violence breaks out again, Johnson and his chums will have blood on their hands.

But you Brexiters were desperate to control our borders. Whatever the price. Interestingly enough, we don't hear a squeak from you about how Gibraltar is now part of Schengen for EU citizens that is.