I need some positives

[Vegeetas]

Quick preface, I have always believed that two people can think differently about a thing and remain friends. I am not asking this to throw stones at anyone or pick a fight, I am genuinely in need of something to be optimistic about.

My question is two fold. Why did you vote for brexit and what actual benefit do you think it will bring? Everyone I have spoken to that admitted to voting for brexit and Boris haven't been able to suggest even one thing that is positive that we couldn't already do.

Help!

the NI Border didn't have to be a Brexit Bargaining Tool of the Greatest Importance - the EU chose to make it so in order to drive their hardest bargain

Well, that failed then.... the best outcome for the EU would have been for the UK to have negotiated to stay in the SM and CU.... that would also have been best for the UK too.
The FTA is really the worst of both worlds for all concerned.

Outside of these, there has to be a border somewhere and given the complexities of NI, thats very problematic...... i really don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

I have noticed that on all the Brexit threads there seems to be the idea coming from Leavers that Remainers think the EU is amazing and that any problem with the EU will change our minds about it. As a staunch Remainer I know there are a lot of faults with the EU, I still think it makes more sense to have trade deals and agreements with our closest neighbours and have a say in how we conduct business with them.

@hateisnotgood
We'll just have to agree that we disagree LQ - the NI Border didn't have to be a Brexit Bargaining Tool of the Greatest Importance - the EU chose to make it so in order to drive their hardest bargain.

The EU did not choose to make it a bargaining tool. The U.K. Government did when they decided unilaterally and with no consultation of 'the people' that Brexit meant leaving the customs union. That required putting in a border somewhere - either between NI and ROI or this fudge compromise of putting it in the Irish Sea (with U.K. now trying to weasel out of its own commitment). As others said, this is required by WTO rules.

What is the CTA you're referring to?

It would have been interesting if the referendum had said that Brexit might have a benefit in 10 or 50 years, whether it would have even got 52%.

Imagine that on the red bus

@Theworldisfullofgs

It would have been interesting if we had had any institution in the U.K. capable of fining individuals and organisations heavily for lying!

Or since the Brexiters in Parliament want to go back to old fashioned standards, it would be good if they resigned immediately when found to be lying to Parliament, as Profumo did. Take note Johnson.

So, @HateIsNotGood where would you put the border?

Let me guess -
Invisible magic border (that doesn't exist).
Don't need one, it's just the EU (WTO) being mean.
Couldn't care less.

@Peregrina

Or since the Brexiters in Parliament want to go back to old fashioned standards, it would be good if they resigned immediately when found to be lying to Parliament, as Profumo did. Take note Johnson.

I would be up for them being able to duel for their honour if someone dares to besmirch them. I would pay for access to that lol

I have noticed that on all the Brexit threads there seems to be the idea coming from Leavers that Remainers think the EU is amazing and that any problem with the EU will change our minds about it.

It's a manifestation of the "well if you think the EU is so wonderful why don't you fuck off and live there" insult that was doing the rounds heavily in the run up to 2016. Which in itself was a projection of the Brexiteers simplistic view of life onto ... well everything. Nuance being something you serve as part of a continental breakfast etc ...

I was catching up with Deutschland 86 on More 4, where the ardent supporters of the regime were denying that there were any shortages despite the evidence of their own eyes. I could not but help think that this is how the Brexiters are - shouting that it's all going swimmingly when it's not. Or trying to rewrite history as with Frost extolling the vaccine roll out, or others telling us that there were bound to be teething problems. Nope, you didn't tell us this.

And also those who stepped out of line, being frozen out of jobs and university places etc., which was very much the same as the Remainers frozen out of posts in Johnson's Cabinet - only true BeLeavers found a place.

Well, the positive here was that the regime crumbled not many years afterwards.

lifesnotaspectatorsport

That and corruption. France has done it. We should too.

It also annoys me A LOT
that we have an unelected bureaucrat leading the UK 'negotiating' team.

I thought the whole idea was to make sure that ELECTED people decided the UK laws

This government does not even let UK MPs decide UK laws
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/08/aid-spending-cuts-may-not-get-commons-vote-no-10-suggests

But hey, there's the Turing programme...

"Life" the CTA is the Common Travel Area between RoI and UK established in 1923. UK and Irish Citizens of both Countries (and Crown Dependencies) can move freely and reside in either Country and enjoy associated rights and privileges, including the right to work, study and vote in certain elections, as well as access to social welfare benefits and health services.

Prior to the Brexit Ref the EU were challenging the CTA as discriminating against other EU Citizens.

@Vegeetas

Quick preface, I have always believed that two people can think differently about a thing and remain friends. I am not asking this to throw stones at anyone or pick a fight, I am genuinely in need of something to be optimistic about.

My question is two fold. Why did you vote for brexit and what actual benefit do you think it will bring? Everyone I have spoken to that admitted to voting for brexit and Boris haven't been able to suggest even one thing that is positive that we couldn't already do.

Help!

For me the only benefits (or maybe kind of justice) of Brexit is that MEPs brexiteers stopped receiving their salaries anc expenses and fundings. I've read somewhere that UKIP EU group got around €2M per year from the EU which is a huge irony. Probably Farage misses those freely flowing money.

Cannot see anything else positivd at the moment.

tropical if you scroll back through the pages you'll see a few positives - maybe animal welfare isn't something that is a priority of yours.

The thing is, not many who voted for Brexit sail in these seas, for very obvious, and now, very old reasons.

Hope That Helps,

if you scroll back through the pages you'll see a few positives - maybe animal welfare isn't something that is a priority of yours

We slaughter millions of animals, which are transported over v long distances within the UK, far far more than are exported.

We all need to eat less animals, the ban is window dressing in terms of the real issues of intensive farming.

There are exceptions for breeding and re stocking too, even if the ban eventually happens, which is by no means certain.

Animal welfare :
It is still legal to put cattle in a lorry in Cornwall and drive them to Durham ....

Within the EU, driving from Dunkirk to Ostend is a MUCH shorter and less stressful journey

Well, too many Local Slaughterhouses and Livestock Markets were closed down.

I recall taking 3 pigs to a Village Slaughterhouse in the late 1990s and getting them back Butchered. As humane a way of raising and eating meat that there is. And I ate, sold and bartered every bit and the Slaughterhouse had their uses for the rest.

The pigs weren't mine, I couldn't eat those that I reared, it's the conundrum of rearing livestock. Not all local areas are suited to growing enough vegetables and grains to sustain the population needed to grow them. So you barter meat for grain.

Keep the livestock as local as possible - minimize live transportation wherever possible.

Maybe rephrase it and asked what was so wonderful about the EU? For every positive there will be a negative, and I expect the same can be said for Brexit.

I didn't vote Brexit. And I didn't enjoy the surprise £40 customs charge dh landed last week!

However, my 1 good thing is getting out of the Common Agricultural Policy. I live in hope that the New Environmental Land Management Scheme will be a lot better for nature and a green economy. When the govt finally puts the Environment Bill through.

Well, too many Local Slaughterhouses and Livestock Markets were closed down

too expensive to run and they all need an on site vet because of cruel practices... we don't have enough vets, so we used EU ones... guess where they have gone?

I recall taking 3 pigs to a Village Slaughterhouse in the late 1990s and getting them back Butchered. As humane a way of raising and eating meat that there is. And I ate, sold and bartered every bit and the Slaughterhouse had their uses for the rest

thats great for the rural middle classes, not for everyone else.

I know it's not a positive for those working in it but ironically I think the harm to the fishing industry we are seeing as a result of Brexit will be a positive if this shrinks fishing fleets. Fishing does terrible environmental damage. Ban on live animals exports would be a good thing as well, if it happens.
Neither of these things are even remotely worth sacrificing the peace in NI for though, not by a million miles.

jas it really isn't all "rural middle classes" although the working class are pretty much priced out of most rural areas now.

I'm not sure where you find info to substantiate your claims that UK Slaughterhouses are any more cruel than any other country's slaughterhouses are cruel.

The expensiveness of slaughter came from the BSE Crisis, whereby the UK had to accept far greater slaughterhouse restrictions and the Expense involved than any other EU country. They could only operate if overseen by an EU vet - the irony of it was astounding, given the lower animal welfare standards of the EU countries that most of these vets came from.

So many Local UK Slaughterhouses closed, not only to the benefit of the lot-fed US and EU Herds but caused the increase in live transportation within the UK itself.

Thankfully any BSE has been eradicated and the grass-fed, older UK Herds that produced some of the finest Beef in the World were not completely destroyed, but they, and the people that raised them have kept them 'alive'.

All that's needed is the places for the working class people that know how to do raise this world class beef, at prices they can afford.

Not all knowledge can be bought at the highest price.