I need some positives

[Vegeetas]

Quick preface, I have always believed that two people can think differently about a thing and remain friends. I am not asking this to throw stones at anyone or pick a fight, I am genuinely in need of something to be optimistic about.

My question is two fold. Why did you vote for brexit and what actual benefit do you think it will bring? Everyone I have spoken to that admitted to voting for brexit and Boris haven't been able to suggest even one thing that is positive that we couldn't already do.

Help!

We are out out. Mickey Flanagan OUT OUT!

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver

I call it an object lesson in exactly how pathetic all the Brexshittier posturing was

Call it what you like Hannibal but if you want a pathetic posturing competition then Macron puts even Brexiteer posturing in the shade (I think it must be something to do with 'little man syndrome' )

Put Boris in his place though. Forced him to sign up to a totally shit deal, despite us "holding all the cards", them "needing us more than we need them" etc. etc. etc. etc.

So much bullshit.

2. If we were a member of the procurement scheme we would not have been able to negotiate our own individual vaccine contracts in parallel with the EU

However, in an annex to the Commission’s vaccine strategy presented in June, the EU-27 countries agreed “not to launch their own procedures for advance purchase of that vaccine with the same manufacturers"

But but but... IF (and it's an unknown, because Bojo wouldn't have been PM is the vote had been to Remain) the UK had held out and not joined the EU program, that would have emboldened other EU not to either, leading to the whole thing collapsing.

There isn't a paralell universe, so it's an unknown, we also don't know if a new CV strain immune to current vaccines will appear, making any vaccine program useless.

So far there just seems to be a series of negatives, mostly hidden behind Covid.

BoJo has just unilaterally extended the light touch customs clearance for NI until October.

Note no howls of protest from the brexitiers, UK breaking an international treaty.... again.

Regardless of how anyone voted, to think a 37 year "marriage" can just be broken off and everything would be perfect and fall into place is ludicrous.

We have left the EU and to measure the impact after 3 months would be futile, in 5 years time the picture will hopefully (and surely it's everyone's hope) look very different.

Threads like these have been done to death and the whole "show me a positive, go on show me now" seems goady at best.

*47 years, phone keyboard too small!

@TheHateIsNotGood

gammony bluster....wanders off....

I pay attention when someone is talking sense and facts.

If all a person is bringing is essentially quoting football songs of "two world wars and one world cup" for their factual information as to why we are better off out and away from 27 other trading partners and why they owe us anything then I switch off honestly.

We have left the EU and to measure the impact after 3 months would be futile, in 5 years time the picture will hopefully (and surely it's everyone's hope) look very different

Its why i changed my vote, leave was all about belief and Hope! no actual facts.

The problem with the "Hopefully a very different picture in 5 years...." is what if its not?

5 years of wasted opportunity & money, though i suspect Leavers will just say "Can't expect positives after just 5 years...."

Presumably, people like Margaret Thatcher saw very positive reasons for staying in the EEC/EU and her help in designing the SM ?

My point is regardless of how everyone voted surely everyone is hoping it will look better in 5 years time. No we don't know that it will but asking people for positives now when clearly anyone with half a brain can see there aren't any is pointless.

@cashmerekisses

My point is regardless of how everyone voted surely everyone is hoping it will look better in 5 years time. No we don't know that it will but asking people for positives now when clearly anyone with half a brain can see there aren't any is pointless.

Raab says 10 years.

Whats going to change in 5 or even 10 years? (in regard to the EU)

If anything, the rules on trade will tighten.

The 90/180 Schengen issue won't change, post CV (assuming there is) travel to EU is more complex & costly, pet passports, border delays to stamp & check passports, customs checks....

Personally, i need a specific part for my bicycle, not available in UK (special order from US manufacture only) but plenty in EU, my only solution is to have it sent to a EU address, then they post to me as a gift... its an expensive faff.

Quicker vaccination programme.

Could you explain how a vaccination to a virus which didn't exist or was only identified in humans in late 2019 could have informed your decision in 2016? The then existing flu vaccination programmes ran successfully for the years we were in the EU, so they can't be the ones which led to your vote.

I can think of one positive - there was the man who wanted to import some bees and now can't. I gather that there is a big debate about whether these imports should have been allowed anyway, so that probably goes down as a plus.

@Peregrina

Quicker vaccination programme.

Could you explain how a vaccination to a virus which didn't exist or was only identified in humans in late 2019 could have informed your decision in 2016? The then existing flu vaccination programmes ran successfully for the years we were in the EU, so they can't be the ones which led to your vote.

That does smack of desparately grabbing at anything whatsoever to justify themselves.

@Peregrina

Quicker vaccination programme.

Could you explain how a vaccination to a virus which didn't exist or was only identified in humans in late 2019 could have informed your decision in 2016? The then existing flu vaccination programmes ran successfully for the years we were in the EU, so they can't be the ones which led to your vote.

You are completely missing the point Peregrina

It’s not about having some special Mystic Meg type skill to be able to foresee a pandemic.

What it is, however, is a perfect example (that came to light a mere number of weeks after leaving the transition period), that highlights the bureaucratic and slow moving pace at which the wheels of the EU turn at a point when moving at speed is key.

This is exactly what a lot of brexiteers have stated over the years, it’s a bureaucratic behemoth but it was always met with the standard brush off, as it is now. There is more mental gymnastics going on with this particular issue than I have seen in the last four years because, heaven forbid, remainers might have to concede that on this occasion being out has actually been to our benefit.

Can you honestly say we would be in a better place with vaccines if we were in the EU right now?

I am not missing any points. You aren't a Mystic Meg, so the Covid vaccine cannot have informed your decision. You may use is as a justification as to why you think your vote was right.

Would we have been in a better place with vaccines - maybe yes, maybe no. Would we have had considerably fewer deaths? This is not really an EU question - this is down to Johnson's crony-ism in large part - a much better track and trace system might well have helped here. It does call forth another question though - the NHS has most definitely been the star of the show when it comes to dealing with Covid, so people voting Leave for more money for the NHS would be justified in doing so, if the cause of the lack of funding for the NHS had been caused by EU policies. It wasn't though, and the question of why the NHS was starved of funds wasn't asked. It certainly wasn't asked by Cameron and chums, because it would have called their austerity policies and hopeless reorganisations into question.

Any EU member was free to go it alone on vaccines Turns out the EU fucked it up.
BeLeavers living up to the adage that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Your first paragraph - jeez I give up🤦‍♀️

Your second para -
Would we have had considerably fewer deaths? This is not really an EU question no it isn’t and I didn’t ask it.

so people voting Leave for more money for the NHS would be justified in doing so, if the cause of the lack of funding for the NHS had been caused by EU policies. It wasn't though again, I have made no mention of the NHS, let alone indicate that I thought the lack of funding to the NHS was caused by EU policies.

I have said up thread that my reason for voting leave was not about border control so it sounds to me like you are trying to second guess me and are having a stab at it being about having more money for the NHS, or maybe you just want a rant about Tory government which I’m really not interested in tbh.

Can you honestly say we would be in a better place with vaccines if we were in the EU right now?

Who can tell? had the EU been as quick off the mark as the UK, they'd now have more vaccine and uk less.... there is a finite supply of the stuff.

tbh its all too early say, according to imperial, the Brazilian version is more transmissible and is able to re infect those who have previously had CV.

I was primarily addressing my remarks to those who claim that the vaccine roll out was why they voted Leave. It can't have been. Even a year ago we had no way of knowing whether it would have been possible to create an effective vaccine.

I do have some sympathy for those who wanted that £350 million a week for the NHS - even though I think their reasoning was flawed. The last year has shown us why we are right to value the NHS.

@Peregrina

I was primarily addressing my remarks to those who claim that the vaccine roll out was why they voted Leave. It can't have been. Even a year ago we had no way of knowing whether it would have been possible to create an effective vaccine.

I do have some sympathy for those who wanted that £350 million a week for the NHS - even though I think their reasoning was flawed. The last year has shown us why we are right to value the NHS.

The 350 a week was proved to be a lie even before the campaign ever concluded.

Who can tell? had the EU been as quick off the mark as the UK, they'd now have more vaccine and uk less.... there is a finite supply of the stuff

A lot of Remainers have spent four years saying they want actual facts and tangible benefits of being out of the EU. I have given one.

The EU werent quick off the mark, they don’t have more vaccines, the U.K. don’t have less. That’s a fact and a tangible benefit of not being tied by EU bureaucracy what ever way you try and spin it.

a few facts here for the 'Brexit meant we could have vaccines quicker' brigade.

a few facts here for the 'Brexit meant we could have vaccines quicker' brigade. (AKA the easily-persuaded by charlatans and liars...)

A lot of Remainers have spent four years saying they want actual facts and tangible benefits of being out of the EU. I have given one.
Except you haven't. See above.