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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
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Clavinova · 15/02/2021 10:59

DrBlackbird
Okay, so I see the 'ha' was actually DGR's now I've caught up with the thread. But Clav's C&P is still signalling pleasure at witnessing tensions within the EU. And that is just another unpleasant whataboutery argument.

My post was directly relevant to DGR's post - definitely not whataboutery?

DGR: Ha. I bet the Germans desperately wished they'd got out of the EU to be able to secure their own borders, following the example the UK failed to set in 2020.
Germany is to ban travel across some of its borders, after the interior ministry said Austria's Tyrol region and the Czech Republic were now classed as coronavirus "mutation areas".
(contd)
Oh, hang on...

Me: German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer on Saturday [yesterday] lashed out against EU officials for pushing back against his government’s plans to temporarily reinstate controls on its borders with Austria and the Czech Republic.

“We are fighting the mutated virus on the border with the Czech Republic and Austria...

petty delight...is really disturbing

Epic fail at gaslighting in my opinion.

Clavinova · 15/02/2021 11:00

definitely not whataboutery?

Errant question mark.

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 11:10

I think I see now. Gosh that was a long time ago. Nearly 1/520th of the "time till it's all fucking brilliant" as assessed by the Raabulator.

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 11:21

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Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
ListeningQuietly · 15/02/2021 12:01

Delighted to hear that @Sostenueto
hope you are keeping OK

prettybird · 15/02/2021 12:18

Good to hear Sostenueto Thanks

How are your dd and dgd getting on?

mrslaughan · 15/02/2021 14:28

Whatever happened to Liam Fox..... all that newly Brexit won global influence etc ....... it's almost like the rest of the world realised that the British govt wanted to appoint their own stooge so they could bend the rules as they saw fit......

twitter.com/wto/status/1361316137020121089?s=21

mrslaughan · 15/02/2021 14:28

sOS great to hear your had your vaccination....... how's your knee healing?

ListeningQuietly · 15/02/2021 14:37

Loving this Tory MP calling out Johnson
twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1360876933685407747
(and he is by all accounts a solidly good MP unlike the ones in the south of the county)

mrslaughan · 15/02/2021 16:53

I saw that yesterday LQ and I was astonished......but also gave me a little hope....

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 17:13

@ListeningQuietly

Loving this Tory MP calling out Johnson twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1360876933685407747 (and he is by all accounts a solidly good MP unlike the ones in the south of the county)
The very first comment I saw in an engineering forum was "That'll be handy for when Ireland leaves the EU".

And no, it wasn't being sarcastic.

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 18:08

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Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
ListeningQuietly · 15/02/2021 18:27

MrsL
I know people who deal with him (and Drax and Chope)
and they ALL describe him as being of the Letwin mould - patrician Tory.
Not sure how he survived the purge
and that turn of phrase is definitely 'him'

DGR
My old web host voted leave to get away from any EU data rules
Wazzock.

SabrinaThwaite · 15/02/2021 18:44

Friends that have been doing contract work in Norway for years are being put on hold whilst their work permit arrangements are being clarified.

I know some of them voted Leave. Oops.

DrBlackbird · 15/02/2021 21:23

I granted that the 'ha' wasn't yours and I'm not going to scroll through past posts for an example, but Clav your constant C&P'ing frequently implies whataboutery. Someone will post on how things are bad in the UK and you reply what about how bad they are in Germany or France etc. So a bit disingenuous to play the hurt innocent now, but whatever... Hmm

HesterThrale · 16/02/2021 00:19

Young people more worried about Brexit than Covid-19
Two fifths (42%) of adults aged 18-29 report being stressed about Brexit, more than the proportion who are worried about catching Covid-19 (32%) or becoming seriously ill from the disease (22%), find UCL researchers as part of the Covid-19 Social Study.

So much to worry about for young people at the moment.

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/feb/young-people-more-worried-about-brexit-covid-19

veeeeh · 16/02/2021 01:39

As an Eu resident, I don't see any angst at all, it is largely ignored.

I also don't see much angst in UK either YET.

Is it a slow burner, has Covid clouded the reality?

I realise that folk on here focus on quite erudite implications, but the reality seems to be that no one cares right now. That may change, but the efffect of any immediate implications for ordinary life appears to be minimal in UK.

vera99 · 16/02/2021 02:37

Poor old Clav seeing the promised land unravel at rate of knots. You own it love - you own it. And all from the hand of dear old Mr Johnson, who would have thought it. But hey Jeremy Corbyn...and vaccines...(to which we could easily have derogated in any way so that doesn't count).

If it wasn't for Covid the protests would be literally eye-watering not least a few tons of fish dumped in Parliament Square.

Peregrina · 16/02/2021 09:36

The Westminster Government are milking von der Leyen's vaccine/A19 slip up for all it's worth. They have a short window to ram this message home to the plebs. In a couple of years time, a covid vaccine will be like a flu vaccine - readily available for all who want it, and we will have found new treatments for those who have got covid.

But Brexit will still be with us, and we will begin to see other countries recover but it remains to be seen what will happen with the UK. I obviously mustn't say that the UK will lag behind because it upsets the True BeLeavers - but we will have damaged so many industries that it's hard to contemplate a storming recovery. The already wealthy who have saved money by not commuting and not going on holiday are not the sort of people who will be starting up new industries I suspect.

Sostenueto · 16/02/2021 09:44

Sorry I didn't get back listening quietly and prettybird one of side effects sleeping! Bit ugh today headache go e but still face ache as if I'd been punched just lethargic so know what to expect with next jab lol!
Dgd going back to uni on 24th February with a damn good excuse to do so bum internet connection at home nearly missed her exams because of it as intermittent service but she managed in end and results out now and with her coursework 4 modules passed with a first in her first semester! So brilliant! but she needs to get back. All her school friends live 37 miles away she hasn't seen anyone at all in her age range and one of her flatmates going back same day so she won't be alone. It's a case of her mental health won't hold out much longer if she does not go back as she's alone 6 days a week while her mum works 12 hour shifts. Dd has had her jab too which is good news!
Hope you are both well and my knee is healed well and able to totter about as I used to though still need dog walker for another month. But otherwise👍 stay safe to all of you xx

Sostenueto · 16/02/2021 09:51

^^Young people more worried about Brexit than Covid-19
Two fifths (42%) of adults aged 18-29 report being stressed about Brexit, more than the proportion who are worried about catching Covid-19 (32%) or becoming seriously ill from the disease (22%), find UCL researchers as part of the Covid-19 Social Study.

Tbh my Dgd could not care a damn about Brexit she doesn't give it a thought atm. All she's worried and stressed about is uni work and being locked up all the while. Yes she's concerned about Covid but not for herself but for her mum and me. She's 19.

ListeningQuietly · 16/02/2021 10:09

Sos
Quite agree about Uni kids going stir crazy at home.
Mine is only here because he has the space to work out here and its cold up north but he is REALLY lonely.

Daughter started a new job yesterday.
Well, the faces on the teams screen in her bedroom changed anyway
Sad

COVID is masking Brexit excellently
but by June when the excellent NHS run vaccination scheme has done its job
the reality of what we have lost will bite.

vera99 · 16/02/2021 11:35

Tunnel to Ireland from Scotland whilst French lorries bypass the UK. You wouldn't get Johnson to build a shed such is his staggering incompetence.

That deserves a clap though.

Peregrina · 16/02/2021 11:39

How would a tunnel from Scotland to Ireland get round the problem that NI is in the Customs Union and Scotland isn't (yet)?

vera99 · 16/02/2021 11:50

No worries in la la Brexit land there are solutions to things we can only imagine in our wildest covid fevered dreams.,..

The chair of the Northern Ireland Select Committee has said a train in any undersea tunnel between here and Great Britain could be pulled by an “inexhaustible herd of unicorns overseen by stern, officious dodos”.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/boris-burrow-tunnel-train-could-be-pulled-by-unicorns-says-ni-committee-chair-40089962.html

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