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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
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Peregrina · 14/02/2021 11:29

Absolutely was appeasement, simple.

I don't think that anything in NI can be declared to be simple. I now realise that in Great Britain we didn't hear the half of what was happening in N Ireland, and quite honestly, the vast majority didn't care either way. So I am not prepared to go along with a statement that it was appeasement.

I just think from Blair's point of view it was the greatest pity he followed Bush slavishly and went to war in Iraq. Otherwise his reputation would justifiably have been one as a peacemaker.

borntobequiet · 14/02/2021 11:54

Why would Gov hate the Good Friday Agreement?

I think that Michael Gove hates the GFA because he sees it as giving in to terrorists. Well, that’s sort of his stated reason. I believe that he just really hates the Irish, for a variety of bigoted reasons.

www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2016/07/04/news/michael-gove-defends-controversial-remarks-about-northern-ireland-589123/

Peregrina · 14/02/2021 12:12

But there were terrorists on the the other side.

ListeningQuietly · 14/02/2021 12:54

^www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/14/raab-shrugs-off-brexit-troubles-urging-people-to-take-10-year-view^
Only the super rich can afford to wait ten years for things to get better

ListeningQuietly · 14/02/2021 13:15

MORE corrupt cronyism.
Hargreaves and Lansdowne (major funders of Leave.eu) covered for him for years
and instead of having ALL his licences removed
the Hellograph is bigging him up again
WTF is going on
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/13/exclusive-neil-woodford-launch-comeback-fund-says-sorry-did/

Clavinova · 14/02/2021 13:57

Hargreaves and Lansdowne (major funders of Leave.eu)

29 March 2016;
Hargreaves Lansdown distances itself from founder's leave campaign.

In a statement...Hargreaves Lansdown moved to put some distance between itself and its founder’s stance.

It said it had issued the statement after receiving calls from a number of people wishing to speak to Peter Hargreaves.

‘Peter Hargreaves is no longer an employee or director of Hargreaves Lansdown. He is entitled to his personal opinion, however he does not speak for, or represent Hargreaves Lansdown or its directors,’...

It added: ‘Hargreaves Lansdown is not taking a position and will remain neutral in this debate.

citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/hargreaves-lansdown-distances-itself-from-founders-leave-campaign/a894418?section=new-model-adviser

ListeningQuietly · 14/02/2021 14:01

Peter Hargreaves is still a shareholder
and he gave £3.2m to the leave campaign
search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Donations/C0243529

Money he made from sharks like Woodford

Clavinova · 14/02/2021 14:04

Ha. I bet the Germans desperately wished they'd got out of the EU to be able to secure their own borders

13 Feb 2021;
German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer on Saturday [yesterday] lashed out against EU officials for pushing back against his government’s plans to temporarily reinstate controls on its borders with Austria and the Czech Republic.

“We are fighting the mutated virus on the border with the Czech Republic and Austria,” Seehofer told Germany’s BILD tabloid. “The EU Commission should support us and not put spokes in our wheels with cheap advice.”

According to reports in BILD and Der Spiegel, the European Commission requested that Germany’s new rules make an exception for commuters, among others.

At a daily press briefing on Friday, a spokesperson for the Commission said the German government had not yet notified it about the planned border controls, which are expected to enter into force Sunday.

“We urge Germany to implement these measures fully in line with the Council recommendations,” the Commission spokesperson said Friday, adding that the Commission expected EU countries to follow a previously agreed common approach to travel restrictions and to avoid border closures and blanket travel bans.

Seehofer also criticized European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides for their handling of the vaccine rollout across the Continent. “That’s enough,” Seehofer said. “The Commission has made enough mistakes when ordering vaccines in the last few months.”

www.politico.eu/article/germany-travel-coronavirus-border-austria-czech-republic-horst-seehofer-rebuffs-eu-criticism/

ListeningQuietly · 14/02/2021 14:19

Follow the money
nao-mesh.shinyapps.io/Covid_cost_tracker/

DGRossetti · 14/02/2021 16:59

Was anyone else here aware that history goes back before 1939 ?

(Brexiteers can skip this bit)

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/14/as-half-its-sales-are-wiped-out-silk-firm-joins-exodus-to-europe

Already the authorities in the Netherlands and Austria are luring hundreds of UK companies into their territories and tax jurisdictions as UK exporters struggle. And now, so too are the French.

Artus Galiay, the representative to the UK for the Hauts-de-France region that extends from the outskirts of Paris to Calais and Dunkirk, says the regional council there is not trying to act as a parasite on the UK’s post-Brexit economy – but to help.

He is, however, keen to sell what the region offers, and delights in historical allusions. Hauts-de-France offers industrial and logistics sites, what he calls “a dynamic commercial real estate market with competitive costs”, as well as lawyers and accountants. It also wants a chance to repay past generosity.

“We are here to strengthen relations that are centuries old,” says Galiay. “History fans will remember that around 500 years ago, in 1520, it was Henry VIII who welcomed his rival French King François I at the Field of the Cloth of Gold near Calais, at a time when the city was English. Five hundred years later, we are here to return that favour.”

dontcallmelen · 14/02/2021 19:17

.

mrslaughan · 14/02/2021 20:41

More Brexit winning.....

twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1361052433238159361?s=21

Is there any industry not hugely disadvantaged?

TheABC · 14/02/2021 21:44

Thanks all, for the Gov/NI links. I come from an Army family and although watching Blair discuss peace talks with the IRA was uncomfortable, it was better than watching the body bags come home. Our side did some bloody awful things too, along with centuries of systematic racism, so moral high ground is firmly out of reach.

Moving on, I admit that my first thought on seeing Raab's "wait ten years" pronouncement was "Slacker". The Tories have an excellent track record for asset stripping things in just three.

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2021 23:47

This just popped up on my twitter feed and i thought it was so apt and of the moment that it deserved to be posted here as a reminder :

In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and nothing was true… The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.
Hannah Arendt

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mathanxiety · 15/02/2021 01:37

I am not going to post (as you did) that you could call them Lord Sugar and Lord Adonis - because you should call them Lord Sugar and Lord Adonis. On the other hand, Baroness Boothroyd , Baroness Brady and Baroness Lawrence etc. is fine.

However, you can stick with Baron Sugar and Baron Adonis if you insist.

@Clavinova
Clearly you missed the context and indeed the implication of my comment in that passage that other people probably have their own titles for Hannan, titles related to his actual conduct and the effect of his life's work.

I am a citizen of a country that does not recognise titles, thank God, and I don't feel obliged to use any quaint honorifics. Your 'shoulds' are lost on me.

mathanxiety · 15/02/2021 07:02

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56061624

Johnson refers to Trump's reckless and dangerous conduct from November onwards to the insurrection of the 6th January and the subsequent impeachment proceedings as 'the toings and froings and all the kerfuffle'.
This is going to go down like a lead balloon in Washington.

A reminder of Biden's words: “This sad chapter in our history has reminded us that democracy is fragile.”

Mitch McConnell:

"January 6th was a disgrace.

American citizens attacked their own government. They used terrorism to try to stop a specific piece of democratic business they did not like.

Fellow Americans beat and bloodied our own police. They stormed the Senate floor. They tried to hunt down the Speaker of the House. They built a gallows and chanted about murdering the vice president.

They did this because they had been fed wild falsehoods by the most powerful man on Earth – because he was angry he'd lost an election.

Former President Trump's actions preceding the riot were a disgraceful dereliction of duty.

The House accused the former president of, quote, "incitement." That is a specific term from the criminal law.

Let me put that to the side for one moment and reiterate something I said weeks ago: There is no question that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of that day.

The people who stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president.

And their having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories, and reckless hyperbole which the defeated president kept shouting into the largest megaphone on planet Earth.

The issue is not only the president's intemperate language on January 6th.

It is not just his endorsement of remarks in which an associate urged "trial by combat."

It was also the entire manufactured atmosphere of looming catastrophe; the increasingly wild myths about a reverse landslide election that was being stolen in some secret coup by our now-president.

I defended the president's right to bring any complaints to our legal system. The legal system spoke. The Electoral College spoke. As I stood up and said clearly at the time, the election was settled.

But that reality just opened a new chapter of even wilder and more unfounded claims.

The leader of the free world cannot spend weeks thundering that shadowy forces are stealing our country and then feign surprise when people believe him and do reckless things.

Sadly, many politicians sometimes make overheated comments or use metaphors that unhinged listeners might take literally.

This was different.

This was an intensifying crescendo of conspiracy theories, orchestrated by an outgoing president who seemed determined to either overturn the voters' decision or else torch our institutions on the way out.

The unconscionable behavior did not end when the violence began.

Whatever our ex-president claims he thought might happen that day, whatever reaction he says he meant to produce, by that afternoon, he was watching the same live television as the rest of the world.

A mob was assaulting the Capitol in his name. These criminals were carrying his banners, hanging his flags, and screaming their loyalty to him.

It was obvious that only President Trump could end this.

Former aides publicly begged him to do so. Loyal allies frantically called the administration.

But the president did not act swiftly. He did not do his job. He didn't take steps so federal law could be faithfully executed, and order restored.

Instead, according to public reports, he watched television happily as the chaos unfolded. He kept pressing his scheme to overturn the election!

Even after it was clear to any reasonable observer that Vice President Pence was in danger, even as the mob carrying Trump banners was beating cops and breaching perimeters, the president sent a further tweet attacking his vice president.

Predictably and foreseeably under the circumstances, members of the mob seemed to interpret this as further inspiration to lawlessness and violence.

Later, even when the president did halfheartedly begin calling for peace, he did not call right away for the riot to end. He did not tell the mob to depart until even later.

And even then, with police officers bleeding and broken glass covering Capitol floors, he kept repeating election lies and praising the criminals.

In recent weeks, our ex-president's associates have tried to use the 74 million Americans who voted to re-elect him as a kind of human shield against criticism.

Anyone who decries his awful behavior is accused of insulting millions of voters.

That is an absurd deflection.

Seventy-four million Americans did not invade the Capitol. Several hundred rioters did.

And 74 million Americans did not engineer the campaign of disinformation and rage that provoked it.

One person did..."

Johnson is signalling by his flippant words that he is clearly happy that Trump was acquitted and playing court to what he hopes is the leader in waiting biding his time in Mar-a-Lago.

A reminder of the definition of kerfuffle - "a commotion or fuss, especially one caused by conflicting views."

This is the single most tin-eared statement I have ever heard from the lips of Boris Johnson.

mathanxiety · 15/02/2021 07:03

*paying court

DrBlackbird · 15/02/2021 08:41

[quote ListeningQuietly]The UK is now a kleptocracy
www.theguardian.com/education/2021/feb/14/how-expert-was-rejected-for-education-role-given-to-pms-ally[/quote]
It is a sick joke being perpetrated on all of us this constant filling up of public bodies and public roles with unqualified and inexperienced mates of Johnson. A Trumpian worthy act. And we get to pay them for the pleasure. Almost makes you think that this Brexiteering lot absolutely knew that the economy was going to shit once we'd left and that the only way to make money was access to the taxpayer's money. 👏👏👏

DrBlackbird · 15/02/2021 09:09

And Clav 'ha' really?

That comes across as a petty delight in what appears to be the splintering of relations between the EU and Germany but what is really is just the constant negotiating that has always characterised the EU and is really disturbing. Like someone having a hard time in life wishing the same on their mates. Nice.

The following link provides another view on the EU. And I, for one, hope that the EU's vaccination programme rolls out effectively and efficiently. On a personal level because I have friends living there. On a more national level, let's not forget that quite a few Brits want to go on holiday this summer to the continent.

www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/brexit-britain-eu-covid-vaccination-fiasco

ListeningQuietly · 15/02/2021 09:20

Mitch McConnell is SOLELY to blame for the acquittal.
I hope that no restaurant in DC serves him
and that every officer in his protection squad says "Sicknick" every hour.

But yes, kerfuffle
Johnson is truly a character of Little Britain

DrBlackbird · 15/02/2021 09:26

Okay, so I see the 'ha' was actually DGR's now I've caught up with the thread. But Clav's C&P is still signalling pleasure at witnessing tensions within the EU. And that is just another unpleasant whataboutery argument.

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 10:19

@DrBlackbird

Okay, so I see the 'ha' was actually DGR's now I've caught up with the thread. But Clav's C&P is still signalling pleasure at witnessing tensions within the EU. And that is just another unpleasant whataboutery argument.
?

Where did I type "ha" ? And in what context ?

Sostenueto · 15/02/2021 10:50

Well I've had my jab and some side effects but I survived lol!

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