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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

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RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 17:14

Its if the CPTPP say thanks but no thanks it'll be amusing.

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BoreOfWhabylon · 31/01/2021 17:17

pmk with thanks to all

ListeningQuietly · 31/01/2021 17:19

Happy memories of dancing to this : Turning Japanese

ListeningQuietly · 31/01/2021 17:22

Re : International Travel
I'm currently looking into a compassionate pass to go abroad - I'm very glad I'll have the right passport for both ends of the journey.

Brits have taken for granted being allowed in everywhere
they are soon to find out what third party country really means
when travel restarts

mrslaughan · 31/01/2021 17:26

Best of luck LQ. I hope it is granted abs you can get to see your aged parent.

DGRossetti · 31/01/2021 17:27

@RedToothBrush

Its if the CPTPP say thanks but no thanks it'll be amusing.
Not as amusing as if they were to accept the EU and decline the UK.

Especially if the reason given is "we ain't having you two starting your shit over here, and quite frankly the EU is worth more to us ....^

Which may yet emerge as a new theme in geopolitics. Once again highlighting the absolute moronity of thinking you can "go it alone" when the worst biggest democratic trading bloc is also roaming the high seas.

Bee0808 · 31/01/2021 17:29

Hope you get the pass LQ x

ListeningQuietly · 31/01/2021 17:31

DGR
Not as amusing as if they were to accept the EU and decline the UK.
That would indeed be funny.

THe UK Gov has this strange idea still they our empty offers will be taken up by everybody
Modi and the visas springs to mind

DGRossetti · 31/01/2021 17:40

@ListeningQuietly

DGR Not as amusing as if they were to accept the EU and decline the UK. That would indeed be funny.

THe UK Gov has this strange idea still they our empty offers will be taken up by everybody
Modi and the visas springs to mind

I know the old gym membership analogy has been done to death. But that was only ever relevant to the UKs trying to hang on to all the free trade goodness of the EU while avoiding paying for it.

Now we are out. Well and truly. It's the next phase of "Operation Scuttle" we have to look forward to now. Which is going around the globe, and hanging around in waiting rooms to go in to see the Minister, after the EU ambassador comes out (which may explain the pettiness of refusing to recognise them ?).

And even if we get there first, we know that whatever we agree to, will simply be offered to the EU as a matter of course. Although I'd suspect the reverse will happen, and the EU will do the heavy lifting with "& the UK" being added to the end of whatever is agreed.

I'm guessing if you watch/read very carefully, there's going to be a wonderful suggestion from the UK about working with our partner and ally the EU to expand international trade.

ListeningQuietly · 31/01/2021 17:47

Finally an interesting idea from Labour
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/31/keir-starmer-urged-to-back-radical-constitutional-reform-for-uk

prettybird · 31/01/2021 17:49

[quote ListeningQuietly]Finally an interesting idea from Labour
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/31/keir-starmer-urged-to-back-radical-constitutional-reform-for-uk[/quote]
That ship has sailed.

DGRossetti · 31/01/2021 17:58

[quote ListeningQuietly]Finally an interesting idea from Labour
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/31/keir-starmer-urged-to-back-radical-constitutional-reform-for-uk[/quote]
A day late, and a dollar short. The time for that was when Scotland wasn't leaving the Union.

Peregrina · 31/01/2021 18:08

What soverignty are we giving up?

Doesn't any treaty with another country entail giving up some sovereignty in that you are no longer a free agent - you have to refer to the other party to the treaty.

It's very funny, Brexiters get very distressed by the lack of this, or not having any say, but I can't for the likes of me think when we have been asked to vote on a NATO agreement or a WTO agreement. It only seems to be the EU which upsets them. It really is time that they realised that the last war has been over now for more than 75 years and that the world has moved on.

Peregrina · 31/01/2021 18:10

The bright spot is the amount of ear-bending our top echelons will get by the racing industry about livestock restrictions at the Cheltenham.

You mean that lovable Boris has let his friend Dido down? Who would have thought it!

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 18:20

@Peregrina

What soverignty are we giving up?

Doesn't any treaty with another country entail giving up some sovereignty in that you are no longer a free agent - you have to refer to the other party to the treaty.

It's very funny, Brexiters get very distressed by the lack of this, or not having any say, but I can't for the likes of me think when we have been asked to vote on a NATO agreement or a WTO agreement. It only seems to be the EU which upsets them. It really is time that they realised that the last war has been over now for more than 75 years and that the world has moved on.

Yep.
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Clavinova · 31/01/2021 18:26

DGRossetti
THE EU has been invited to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) - the free trade area with 11 countries the UK is hoping to enter - by Australian Senator Eric Abetz.

Just googled your Australian Senator - he was interviewed by the Express in September last year;

In an exclusive interview with Express.co.uk, Australian Liberal Party Senator Eric Abetz said about the prospect of Britain joining the CPTPP: "I couldn't see a reason why Britain shouldn't, couldn't or wouldn't be part of it.

"Let's hope they get excited by that prospect.

"It would be a real enhancement for the UK and for all the other members of the partnership."

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1338128/brexit-news-trade-australia-cptpp-japan-deal-eric-abetz-eu-uk-deal-spt

The Express article was from the 14th [Jan] too. Making it look like the UK only wanted in after the EU were invited.

You missed my previous links on this topic, although Peregrina was involved in both discussions:

15 December 2020 - [Liz] Truss said it’s Britain’s 7th deal [Mexico] with a member of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), adding “I look forward to the UK applying early next year to join CPTPP.”

oriental.news/2020/12/15/uk-mexico-sign-tade-deal-as-brexit-transition-period-draws-to-a-close/

27 October 2020 - Japan and UK sign free trade agreement...the deal was important not just because of the trade that it will enable directly, but because it will act as a "stepping stone" to the CPTPP...Japan has said it is willing to support the UK’s aspirations to join that bloc.

www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/japan-and-uk-sign-free-trade-agreement

9 September 2020 - International Trade Secretary, Liz Truss, alongside the current chair of the CPTPP Commission, Mexican Economy Minister Graciela Márquez, opened discussions between senior UK trade officials and Chief Negotiators from all 11 members of the Partnership to discuss potential UK accession.

www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-takes-major-step-towards-membership-of-trans-pacific-free-trade-area

mrslaughan
NZ's response to CPTPP

22 January 2019 -
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and United Kingdom Prime Minister Theresa May have advanced trade and a range of other issues during a one hour meeting held in London today.

“We very much value our relationship with the UK. It is our longest-standing relationship, and still one of our closest,” Jacinda Ardern said.

New Zealand also welcomed the UK’s interest in acceding to the CPTPP.

www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1901/S00047/nz-uk-trade-relations-advanced-in-prime-ministers-meeting.htm

dontcallmelen · 31/01/2021 18:45

PMK as sincere thanks Red & all contributors

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
TheElementsSong · 31/01/2021 19:39

PMK with a 🐿:

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch was discovered in the 1990s - it is a huge area of ocean covering about 1.6 million square kilometres containing a high concentration of plastic debris (some of it many decades old), and is caused by the currents of the North Pacific Gyre. Sadly, although it is the largest, this is only one of several plastic patches in the world’s oceans. Therefore, ToryBrexitannianPlague will be a truly fitting participant in this part of the Pacific.

ParadiseIsland · 31/01/2021 19:50

PMK

ListeningQuietly · 31/01/2021 20:21

Sovereignty
is only a worry for those to rich to worry where the next meal come from.

The rest of us are more bothered by tangible stuff

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 31/01/2021 20:34

PMK

mrslaughan · 31/01/2021 21:05

Aaahhhh clav - I love your naivety... of course they are going to say that. But NZ'ers remember (and with the talk about closer alliances) are talking about how the UK ditched us and forced the country very close to economic ruin....all those years ago.

We have grown up - and are used to negotiating deals with much bigger partners, while making sure we are not only protected, but not completely fucked over.

HannibalHayes · 31/01/2021 21:57

Yes, but Cuntnpasteova, like so many Brexshittiers, doesn't yet understand that we're not still the one and only preeminent world power.

Therefore, all other nations should be bowing before our august greatness...

TatianaBis · 31/01/2021 21:57

Is it naivety or disingenuousness?

mrslaughan · 31/01/2021 22:03

.... or a failure to recognise or even understand diplomacy.....