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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
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Clavinova · 12/02/2021 13:44

People disagree about COVID being real, about the Earth being an oblate spheroid, about mammalian sex being obvious and immutable.

Funny you should say that;

Lib Dems hook up with 5G cranks and give a boost to wild conspiracy. -
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/26/why-would-the-lib-dems-hook-up-with-5g-cranks-it-can-only-be-cowardice

mrslaughan · 12/02/2021 13:52

There is ALOT of disquiet in the world of eco omits and Business- that the BOE is not acting independently of the government.
That using the vaccine program (which we have done well on) in which we are just administering 1 dose does not justify the claims made only the BOE.

But anyway- you are comparing actual with projections - which is apples and oranges. Let's see where we are end of the quarter and then end of the year.....

But here's your Johnson 📣

ListeningQuietly · 12/02/2021 14:00

Many businesses will be fine
www.economist.com/britain/2021/02/13/british-business-is-in-surprisingly-good-shape
BUT
the UK has astronomical levels of Government debt
half the economy is on ice
and the rope between the UK and the EU is being payed out day by day

Sensible direction changes are needed

DGRossetti · 12/02/2021 14:05

Some close harmony whining here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56028602

Wales' £39m commercial fishing sector will be "devastated" by changes under the Brexit trade deal, fishermen have warned.

New rules to replace the EU Common Fisheries Policy mean 76 French and Belgian trawlers can fish within six miles of the Welsh coast until 2026.

It means many Welsh fishermen may struggle to survive, the Welsh Fishermen's Association said.

The UK government said it protected fishermen's rights.

But those working in Wales said they were already struggling with export red tape.

Barry Thomas, who voted for Brexit, said Prime Minister Boris Johnson "bottled" the deal "at the last minute", after promising to keep foreign trawlers outside the UK's 12-mile limit.

(contd)

FrankieStein402 · 12/02/2021 14:06

Of course, what the Port of Dover isn't saying is how many of those lorries are coming back with a full load.

Neither are they saying that they are doing full import checks - because they're not.

ListeningQuietly · 12/02/2021 14:20

Basic import clearance is happening.
The ferries and DHB know exactly how laden each vehicle is going in and out.
What is not happening is the full testing and sampling and phyto sanitary regulation on imports.
But every vehicle movement will have its loading tickets (eg so that explosive combinations do not go on the tunnel or that all the heavy trucks are spread out around the boats)

If the Government say they do not know what is coming in
they are flat out lying

GaspodeWonderCat · 12/02/2021 14:31

apropos of nothing just looked at sky news covid second dose numbers. Have emailed sky to point out their error.

From your live news reports today

2nd dose: 524,000
10% of the UK population.

This means the UK has an adult population of 5.2 million. NOPE

BUT the UK population is 65 million + with an adult population of 54 million.

Someone can't do simple sums.

DGRossetti · 12/02/2021 14:39

@GaspodeWonderCat

apropos of nothing just looked at sky news covid second dose numbers. Have emailed sky to point out their error.

From your live news reports today

2nd dose: 524,000
10% of the UK population.

This means the UK has an adult population of 5.2 million. NOPE

BUT the UK population is 65 million + with an adult population of 54 million.

Someone can't do simple sums.

I bet what they meant was 10% of the population of England which is c. 55million so 10% is 550,000. Or close enough for a journalist.
DGRossetti · 12/02/2021 14:40

Massive maths fail there, of course. 10% of 55million is 5.5million

Teach me to listen to YouTube while posting,

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 14:43

New rules to replace the EU Common Fisheries Policy mean 76 French and Belgian trawlers can fish within six miles of the Welsh coast until 2026.

From the link;
Those trawlers could always come into our waters and because they didn't, the UK Government is saying well you know we don't expect them to come in ... What has changed is they now have to be licensed, so it's much more visible...

Ireland not happy - Irish Times 22 Jan 2021;

EU member states have not “adequately respected” the principle of burden sharing in the loss of fish quotas post-Brexit and Ireland has been disproportionately affected, according to Minister for the Marine Charlie McConalogue.

Ireland will [lose] 26 per cent of its mackerel quota by 2025, 14 per cent of prawns, with further substantial reductions in whitefish stocks including 23 per cent of haddock and 20 per cent of monkfish. ...

“I made clear that the inequitable relative contribution of quota share by Ireland is contributing to a strong sense of grievance within our fishing industry and indeed more broadly. I pushed strongly that a mechanism must be found within the EU Commission and relevant Member States to find solutions.”

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-not-at-all-happy-about-disproportionate-fish-quota-loss-minister-1.4465353

DGRossetti · 12/02/2021 14:50

I wonder what topics of discussion Clav would weigh in with what's going on in other countries to show how lucky the UK is ?

Racist attacks ? We have a few in the UK but I'm sure Clav could find a worse country.

Womens rights ?

Remove the tree from your eye that you would note the splinter in your neighbours is quite useful unbollocksy religious advice that a good Christian country and subjects like the UK should seek to follow.

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 15:10

DGRossetti
what's going on in other countries

I thought you might be interested in what's going on in Ireland - obviously not - no wonder Ursula von der Leyen forgot to phone the Irish Taoiseach before triggering Article 16.

DGRossetti · 12/02/2021 15:20

@Clavinova

DGRossetti what's going on in other countries

I thought you might be interested in what's going on in Ireland - obviously not - no wonder Ursula von der Leyen forgot to phone the Irish Taoiseach before triggering Article 16.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54073836

Northern Ireland Secretary admits new bill will 'break international law'

Brandon Lewis says Northern Ireland customs rules legislation do “break international law in a very specific and limited way” A government minister has said a new bill to amend the UK's Brexit deal with the EU will "break international law".

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 15:28

Irish Times again;

Shellshock in Brussels after Commission blunder.
‘A gift to the Brexiteers’ – surprise inclusion of contentious Article 16 stuns Irish officials.

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/shellshock-in-brussels-after-commission-blunder-1.4474558

ListeningQuietly · 12/02/2021 15:30

Who gives a shit about VDL messing up A16 for a few hours last week.

What matters is the UK now its free to make trade deals with the whole world
and does not have to pay attention to rule changes in Brussels any more
Grin

Eve · 12/02/2021 15:30

Peter Robinson making noises about stirring up loyalist action in Northern Ireland.

I wonder do the Govt realise what they have potentially created.

[]www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/peter-robinson-unionists-might-face-choice-between-keeping-stormont-or-scrapping-irish-sea-border-3132423]]

...

Peregrina · 12/02/2021 15:30

That was when their pal Trump was in the White House.
Besides which, Ursula von der Leyen only threatened to trigger it - it was foolish and she backtracked pretty quickly. Whereas our Government only took out the offending clauses in their bill when they realised that they were going to be dealing with a new President and one who is particularly sympathetic to Ireland. Otherwise they would have carried on.

TheElementsSong · 12/02/2021 15:33

The squirrels don't even have an internal logic.

When worshipping at the altar of Brexit: "some people" say something idiotic such as expressing love for Brexit = evidence that the people are brilliant geniuses and therefore Brexit is awesome.

When trying to wriggle out of it: "some people" say something idiotic like 5G = evidence that the people are fools and we should ignore their views.

"Meticulously fact-checked" my pimply arse.

If it wasn't for the short-attention-span credulousness of the Leave crowd, she'd never get away with it.

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 15:44

If it wasn't for the short-attention-span credulousness of the Leave crowd, she'd never get away with it.

I thought it was the Remain group who were complaining my posts were too long for them.

notimagain · 12/02/2021 15:44

Interesting that the topic of Article 16 has popped up on several diverse forums in the last day or so, often accompanied by a C&P from a publication of the poster's choice.......it's almost as if Mr Gove (I hope I have spelt that correctly) /Downing Street/Tory HQ had decreed it to be so, no doubt to detract from other issues.

As we I guess accept whilst the proposal was indeed a massive blunder it's always worth bearing in mind that that the commission recognised the error of it's ways and hence the Article 16 was never implemented - it never got beyond a draft...better still the EU admitted the error..

TBF even the article itself does state:

"Though hastily retracted, the fact remains that the formerly taboo article was put on the table on Friday,"

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 16:04

Interesting that the topic of Article 16 has popped up on several diverse forums in the last day or so, often accompanied by a C&P from a publication of the poster's choice.......it's almost as if Mr Gove (I hope I have spelt that correctly) /Downing Street/Tory HQ had decreed it to be so, no doubt to detract from other issues.

Or could it be that Ursula von der Leyen made a statement about it only two days ago? Just a thought;

"The European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has admitted that “mistakes were made” after an explosive threat to put controls on the Irish border to limit the export of vaccines to the UK.^
...
Addressing the U-turn, Ms Von der Leyen told the European Parliament on Wednesday [10th February]:

“Allow me a word on the island of Ireland. The bottom line is mistakes were made and the process leading up to the decision and I deeply regret that.^

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ursula-von-der-leyen-brexit-vaccine-covid-b1800199.html

GaspodeWonderCat · 12/02/2021 16:06

@DGRossetti

Massive maths fail there, of course. 10% of 55million is 5.5million

Teach me to listen to YouTube while posting,

I thought I was going mad for a moment. Thank you DGR Grin
borntobequiet · 12/02/2021 16:27

Lib Dems hook up with 5G cranks

LDs have been lost to rationality for some time now, sadly. I stopped supporting them when they told me that, as a woman who knows what a woman is, I was not welcome.

notimagain · 12/02/2021 16:29

could it be that Ursula von der Leyen made a statement about it only two days ago?

It could be Clav, OTOH it could just as easily be that fact that just yesterday some in Downing Street were again incorrectly claiming that the EU actually did implement Article 16..just a thought?

I do wonder if the Tory press have decided "Ah but Corbyn" has passed it's used by date so now it's "Ah, but Article 16"....

borntobequiet · 12/02/2021 16:32

Brexit (and Covid): pigs are getting too fat (Farming Today)

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000s2m4

Note to DGR. you do not have to listen to this, neither do you have to tell us you don’t want to.

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