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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

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DGRossetti · 12/02/2021 10:42

We have gained nothing, and lost our credibility as a nation. There are no upsides to Brexit, none whatsoever.

Oh there are. For the 0.0000001% of the population. They've taken from the poor, so to speak, and given it to themselves.

ListeningQuietly · 12/02/2021 10:47

Businesses have not seen the worst of Brexit yet
twitter.com/DanielLambert29/status/1360104069268914177

I told you so

Peregrina · 12/02/2021 10:52

borntobe- you sum it up perfectly.

None of us have said that the EU is perfect, but the UK could have taken a much more positive approach than has certainly been the case since 2010 and probably too since the Blair years. Indeed some EU laws are actually ones the UK proposed (which the Brexiters like to deny) - like the tampon tax, which the Brexiters trumpeted as a success - without Brexit, the whole of the EU could have been enjoying the benefits sooner, but the legislation fell by the wayside.

Or the exclusion of third countries from Galileo - from a proposal initiated I believe from the UK. Here we have definitely been hoist by our own petard. Funnily enough we don't now hear of the money wasted by Cummings trying to purchase an alternative.

David Allen Green proposed a test this morning - about partisan members of Congress not voting to impeach Trump when it is a matter which should transcend party politics - would this behaviour have been exhibited if Hillary Clinton had been the subject of the impeachment?

It's one we have used on these threads - would any Labour PM have got away with the behaviour that Johnson and chum have exhibited? In most cases the answer is No.

As for Clavinova wittering on about what Hannan or Farage or Gove or Cameron said back in 2015 it's of no consequence - they were essentially private opinions. Hannan and Farage weren't even MPs so couldn't vote on Westminster legislation.

Johnson most certainly got a mandate to Get Brexit Done with his Oven Ready Deal. It's tough luck for Leavers that the deal he's served up isn't to their taste. They shouldn't have told him that they would have whatever he's having.

mrslaughan · 12/02/2021 10:53

Andrew Bailey is a Tory Stooge - I think we would be getting a different message if Mark Carney was still in charge.

PawFives · 12/02/2021 11:00

Anyone reading that would think that the EU asked the UK to leave. Yet again only now catching up, but this from @Peregrina a few pages ago (before the derail about who said what in 2015) really struck me. Could this be the new narrative goal? Make people who aren’t paying attention- and given COVID that’s a lot more than usual- believe we were kicked out by the mean EU. After all, if you can make people believe black is white you have total power. .

SabrinaThwaite · 12/02/2021 11:01

On the topic of farming - Guardian columnist George Monbiot yesterday;

I've just finished my research on the EU's farm and biofuel policies. As a Remainer, I feel obliged to admit that if the bloc were judged on these issues alone, it would be one of the most corrupt, perverse, self-serving, wasteful and destructive political bodies on Earth.

I see that Clavinova is doing the usual selective cut’n’pastes.

Seems to have missed out Monbiot’s subsequent Tweet:

Mind you, the UK government made EU policies even worse. I'm thinking of its nixing of a mandatory cap on area payments, and its perverse subsidies for biomass burning (ie for deforestation in Estonia and Latvia) at Drax.

prettybird · 12/02/2021 11:10

@mrslaughan

Andrew Bailey is a Tory Stooge - I think we would be getting a different message if Mark Carney was still in charge.
I was saying exactly the same thing to dh yesterday. Carney would have said he's just a technocrat and that it was his job to pull the economic levers as much as he was able, given the constraints of sovereignty and global economics Wink, and to mitigate or enhance economic effects using those levers. Not to make political comments Hmm
DGRossetti · 12/02/2021 11:13

Or the exclusion of third countries from Galileo - from a proposal initiated I believe from the UK.

Insisted on. The other members were very relaxed about it. Hence the complete and utter lack of interest in making UK exceptions.

Worth burrowing into the little details of the "deal" where the UK refused to budge. I suspect quite a few of them will be in relation to rules and regulations that the UK (and UK alone) insisted on drawing up. I believe the ban on 3rd country shellfish was really pushed hard by ... the UK when we were a member.

Peregrina · 12/02/2021 11:21

Worth burrowing into the little details of the "deal" where the UK refused to budge.

There were an awful lot of these, where Westminster cried 'the EU makes us/ doesn't allow us' [delete as appropriate], when in fact it comes down to Westminster. If my DB were on these threads he could give you chapter and verse about the working time directives and how they could have been improved but the UK Government didn't want to know. Blaming the EU has been such a good excuse which even now they are milking for all it's worth.

Whether it will convince people who are losing their businesses or those Kent folks who are seeing the value of their properties reduced because a dirty great lorry park is being built adjacent to their houses, remains to be seen.

MrsMauryBallstein · 12/02/2021 11:22

More good news for Amsterdam, Paris and NY - Fresh blow for London as euro derivatives trading floods out on.ft.com/3d5bZJY

Copious quantities of squirrel shit smeared everywhere today, I see! Grin I find it best to just scroll on by, this is not good faith posting in my opinion.

mrslaughan · 12/02/2021 11:27

From 3 years ago....but still worth a watch, especially the first 15min - explains again why the EU is being so tough on financial services equivalency's - the UK had a sweetheart deal - we gave that up.

TheElementsSong · 12/02/2021 11:27

doing the usual selective cut’n’pastes

Kindly be corrected - these are meticulously fact-checked counter-arguments, which nevertheless always consist of positivity towards ToryBrexitannia.

Bee0808 · 12/02/2021 11:31

The farming and fishing sectors voted overwhelmingly to leave.
So. Yeah.
I'll save my sympathy for those that didn't want this shitshow and tried to tell people the facts and were called scum, traitor and worse.
This is on leavers. Sort it out.
Stop bleating.
You won.

MrsMauryBallstein · 12/02/2021 11:31

Exactly, mrslaughan - and this was all predictable and predicted

mrslaughan · 12/02/2021 11:56

DGR "Worth burrowing into the little details of the "deal" where the UK refused to budge. I suspect quite a few of them will be in relation to rules and regulations that the UK (and UK alone) insisted on drawing up. I believe the ban on 3rd country shellfish was really pushed hard by ... the UK when we were a member."

I also believe that Dear Nigel - friend of all fisherman (fair weather?) was on the committee that proposed and worked on this law change. .... not sure if he bothered to turn up?

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 12:14

SabrinaThwaite
missed out Monbiot’s subsequent Tweet

Monbiot's subsequent tweet only mentions two UK government policies - his first tweet was much more powerful;

As a Remainer, I feel obliged to admit that if the bloc were judged on these issues alone, it would be one of the most corrupt, perverse, self-serving, wasteful and destructive political bodies on Earth.

borntobequiet
We have gained nothing, and lost our credibility as a nation.

Some people disagree - 11 Feb 2021;

The latest YouGov/Times voting intention figures show that the Conservatives continue to lead with 41% of the vote (n/c), while Labour have dropped 1 point further to 36%.

Boris Johnson has now gained a small lead on our 'best Prime Minister' question. A third of Britons (33%) say he would make the better head of government, while three in ten people (31%) favour Keir Starmer.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/02/11/voting-intention-con-41-lab-36-9-10-feb

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 12:23

8 Feb 2021 Port of Dover Press Release

A month on since the end of the Brexit transition period, the Port of Dover is pleased to already be welcoming over 90% of the freight traffic volumes typical of this time of year following the significant stockpiling experienced before Christmas.

www.doverport.co.uk/about/news/traffic-continues-to-flow-smoothly-through-the-por/13575/

Peregrina · 12/02/2021 12:25

Of course, what the Port of Dover isn't saying is how many of those lorries are coming back with a full load.

SabrinaThwaite · 12/02/2021 12:28

Monbiot's subsequent tweet only mentions two UK government policies - his first tweet was much more powerful

Only because in it he is criticising the EU.

Heaven forbid that he should criticise the UK Government for its implementation of EU farm policies on his second tweet eh?

mrslaughan · 12/02/2021 13:03

UK economy shrank 9.9% in 2020 - that's quite substantial..... it will be biting in places..... but this year you also have the all singing all dancing economic effects of Brexit. Will Johnson et al get the blame from the general populace - or will they manage to dodge that? (Just as they have dodged the responsibility of 125k + deaths that were preventable)

Who knows? But just because the general populace can't see the wood for the trees , doesn't mean I can't.

mrslaughan · 12/02/2021 13:06

So Clav - rather than through your incredibly weak arguments and selective copy and pasting (which you are inevitably ignored or called out on) - maybe you should focus your energy on trying to wallpaper over the cracks for those at risk of falling off the Johnson/Tory/Brexit bandwagon?

borntobequiet · 12/02/2021 13:10

Some people disagree -

Well of course they do. People can disagree with all sorts of things. A lot of people agree with me, too.

TheElementsSong · 12/02/2021 13:18

People disagree about COVID being real, about the Earth being an oblate spheroid, about mammalian sex being obvious and immutable.

Why in the name of Fuck is this somehow being brought up as evidence for anything except that people believe all kinds of utter shite? Oh, because it's meticulously well-researched evidence that Brexitania is wonderful.

ListeningQuietly · 12/02/2021 13:20

Chris Grey spot on as usual
chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/

Clavinova · 12/02/2021 13:39

UK economy shrank 9.9% in 2020 - that's quite substantial

Final paragraph of DGRossetti's Guardian link yesterday;

The Bank of England forecasts growth of 5% in the UK in 2021 and 7.25% in 2022, with GDP returning to pre-Covid levels towards the end of the year. This, it said, would be faster than the EU thanks to better progress in administering the Covid vaccine.

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