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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
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Clavinova · 11/02/2021 20:09

The economic blow dealt by Brexit will be four times greater in the UK than the EU, according to the latest forecasts by Brussels.

In the EU's forecast (via the Guardian link) they say;

The UK’s current FTAs with 3rd countries are taken into account, but no new agreements are assumed to be signed over the forecast horizon [by end 2022].

Quite an assumption when the UK have expressly stated that they are keen to sign Free Trade Deals with 3rd countries this year.

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 20:21

Amsterdam ousts London as Europe’s top share trading hub

In response, London has lifted a prohibition on trading of Swiss stocks, such as Nestlé and Roche, which is currently banned on EU exchanges.

The deal should see daily share trades worth more than €1 billion a day return to London.

ListeningQuietly · 11/02/2021 20:36

Clav
If you are going to purport to quote other sources
please name them (with proper links)

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 21:02

mathanxiety
I posted his title. You could call him Lord Hannan of course.

In fact you posted;
And BTW, that's Baron Hannan of Kingsclere in the County of Hampshire to you.

UK Parliament, MPs and Lords.
Lord Hannan of Kingsclere.
Lord Hannan of Kingsclere is a Conservative Life peer who has sat under this title in the Lords since 1 February 2021. His full title is The Lord Hannan of Kingsclere, and his given name is Daniel Hannan.

members.parliament.uk/member/4905/contact

We don't call Lord Sugar, Baron Sugar - or Lord Adonis, Baron Adonis either - in case you were wondering.

Hannan was working with a number of prominent Brexit supporters to set up a “Museum of Communist Terror” to highlight the crimes and failures of Communist regimes.

Not a project that appeals to me, I must admit - but are you worried about the inclusion of any communist regime in particular?

He also does a nice line in hair splitting...

Whether you agree with his definition of single market or not is probably something of a moot point - his blog was written before the referendum took place, and in support of Michael Gove's announcement that the UK would be leaving the EU's single market with a Yes vote.

Peregrina · 11/02/2021 21:08

What has come out in the rinse for me is that the EU have been disingenuous in their statements regarding the proposals for musicians.

No - what comes out for you is that you are a cheerleader for Brexit,and Johnson, and are looking for statements which confirm your opinion. I doubt whether you cared two hoots about musicians prior to this. If Johnson does an about turn, pressurised into it by wealthy chums who lose out, then suddenly you will pretend you were all for it, or else you will just have to go out, until the thread moves on, and you can cut and paste another wodge of text.

Peregrina · 11/02/2021 21:11

Quite an assumption when the UK have expressly stated that they are keen to sign Free Trade Deals with 3rd countries this year.

Takes two to Tango. They were also keen to sign a Free Trade Deal with the USA and then the wrong man went and won.

There is a limit as to how far away the countries have to be - half way across the world preferably in the Johnson/Gove book, and then it will depend what we want to trade with.

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 21:15

If you are going to purport to quote other sources please name them (with proper links)

This is from the previous poster's FT link;
In response, London has lifted a prohibition on trading of Swiss stocks, such as Nestlé and Roche, which is currently banned on EU exchanges.

Not the second link but I like this one better;
London Starts to Win Back Swiss Share Trades in Brexit Boost.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-04/london-starts-to-win-back-swiss-share-trading-in-brexit-boost

FrankieStein402 · 11/02/2021 21:19

www.politico.eu/article/amsterdam-set-to-remain-europes-top-share-trading-capital-over-london-as-brexit-sets-in/

The data so far in February shows that Amsterdam is still above London, even with Swiss activity back in London," a Cboe spokesman said. “We are committed to growing both our U.K. and Dutch venues to continue to bring competition and choice to Europe’s equity markets.

and as the same article notes:

EU carbon trading worth €1 billion per day will be moved to Amsterdam

11th March 2016: Boris Johnson gives a Brexit speech in Dartford with vote leave “win-win” speech
That we’re the biggest financial capital in the world, that has nothing to do with the EU. It was so when we joined the EU and it’ll be so after we leave.

ListeningQuietly · 11/02/2021 21:21

Share dealing volumes
fascinating
how much tax is paid on that ?

SabrinaThwaite · 11/02/2021 21:26

UK Parliament, MPs and Lords.
Lord Hannan of Kingsclere.
Lord Hannan of Kingsclere is a Conservative Life peer who has sat under this title in the Lords since 1 February 2021.
His full title is The Lord Hannan of Kingsclere, and his given name is Daniel Hannan

Is this the same Daniel Hannan that railed against unelected bureaucrats?

Surely not.

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 21:26

Peregrina
[you are] looking for statements which confirm your opinion

What's everyone else doing here? I read the EU’s draft legal text in mrslaughan's link (relevant section, not all of it) and the EU's economic forecast in DGRossetti's link. It's not my fault you didn't read the links yourself.

I doubt whether you cared two hoots about musicians prior to this.

Not true - there's a clue in my name.

Peregrina · 11/02/2021 21:30

I doubt whether you are a musician which takes your clavinova on gigs, somehow.

I did sing with a choir where one couple hired a van to trundle their organ around. They didn't do foreign trips though.

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 21:33

The data so far in February shows that Amsterdam is still above London, even with Swiss activity back in London," a Cboe spokesman said.

The data doesn’t account for the return of Swiss share trading to London, which only resumed last week. That may see the U.K. capital edge back ahead in February...

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 21:34

Is this the same Daniel Hannan that railed against unelected bureaucrats? Surely not.

I'm afraid so. Smile

Peregrina · 11/02/2021 21:35

Is this the same Daniel Hannan that railed against unelected bureaucrats?

I recall he was also the man compared Liechtenstein to the UK - a land locked mountainous country with a population the size of Oxford. Yep, a valid comparison. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

TheHateIsNotGood · 11/02/2021 21:36

You really do have to admire Clav for consistency in the face of adversity - you might not like her style, you might not like what she says and most here definitely don't like how she voted in the 2016 Referendum, but she has stayed here facing everything whilst other Leave voters like me bugger off for awhile.

I've even questioned to myself if she's for real - I think she really is.

Well Done Clav Flowers.

SabrinaThwaite · 11/02/2021 21:40

@Clavinova

Is this the same Daniel Hannan that railed against unelected bureaucrats? Surely not.

I'm afraid so. Smile

So a man of principles then.

Not.

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 21:43

how much tax is paid on that?

No idea, but the FT say "the tax hit would be limited" on the trading moved to Amsterdam.

Peregrina · 11/02/2021 21:43

Admire someone who posts thousands of cutn'pastes, and is totally up Johnson's arse? Nope, I will pass up on that.

TatianaBis · 11/02/2021 21:47

She’s just a troll.

Clavinova · 11/02/2021 21:47

TheHateIsNotGood

Thank you - of course I'm real. Smile
To be fair - I have much more time on my hands because of the stay at home order - I can't wait to get out more.

TheHateIsNotGood · 11/02/2021 21:50

Ahem, Peregrina, you do realize that you are nearly as consistent as Clavinova don't you? If it was a competition and I was the Judge you would be awarded the Runners Up/2nd Prize.

Well done Pere Daffodil

prettybird · 11/02/2021 21:52

I have no idea what Clav is posting but judging by the responses to his or her posts, there is not much on any value in them and the posts themselves don't advance the discussion. So I am comfortable in continuing to scroll past them Wink

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2021 21:59

Well, I think I ought to deserve some praise from HateIs as I too can post screeds of irrelevant obfuscatory wordcloud text in "support" of Brexitannia. And I generally bother to actually type it ought in my own words instead of just C&Ping any old shite.

^^

prettybird · 11/02/2021 22:03

Well, I enjoy your posts TheElementsSong Thanks and they make the appropriate point Smile

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