Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

[RedToothBrush]

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

She admits to having voted ‘leave’ because she was sick of employment and health and safety rules originating from Brussels.

Some of which may at one time have originated with the UK. Or it might have been a result of the other favourite trick of Westminster of taking EU legislation and adding a few more onerous embellishments of their own, and then saying 'Not us Guv, blame Brussels'.

It also gives the lie to the Brexiters boast about how they wouldn't be reviewing the employment legislation with the intention of downgrading it which they were planning to do but have only dropped within the last couple of days.

If you see me cutnpasting down the page, scroll on by, scroll on by.
With apologies to Dionne Warwick.

The vaccine issues may rumble on if it turns out the immunity from the vaccine only lasts six months to a year as Matt Hancock suggested as a possibility couple of weeks ago. It is an unknown at the moment. Globally, we will have to step up production if this is the case. DH was pondering if it is possible to have the set of AstraZeneca vaccines for a second time, as they work by attaching the Covid protein spike to an unknown (to our immune systems) virus, in this case an adapted adenovirus, to generate an immune response. It generates the response as our immune systems haven't encountered the adenovirus before. Would they need to adapt the adenovirus or use another virus for the vaccine set to be used for a subsequent time, months or years down the line?

HannibalHayes
And a special table to help Cutnpasteova...

I don't know why you keep quoting statistics from Japan at me. Do you have a particular interest in Japan? Some articles here;

28 December - Japan's Suga slips to 42% approval rating in new Nikkei poll - 59% disapprove of government's handling of pandemic...

the new poll marks a steep drop-off from the 74% approval rating his cabinet enjoyed right after he took office in September. The government's coronavirus response appears to be the biggest cause of the slide.

asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan-s-Suga-slips-to-42-approval-rating-in-new-Nikkei-poll

The number of suicides in Japan rose in October for the fourth month in a row to the highest level in more than five years...

According to preliminary police data, the total number of suicides for October was 2,153, an increase of more than 300 from the previous month and the highest monthly tally since May 2015.

www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/11/11/national/japan-suicide-rise-coronavirus/

The vaccine issues may rumble on if it turns out the immunity from the vaccine only lasts six months to a year as Matt Hancock suggested as a possibility couple of weeks ago. It is an unknown at the moment.

It is an unknown. But not something that hasn't been considered. By me. In these (and other) threads for a start. (Plus most regular posters).

I said way back when that it might be a really good idea to wargame what a fading vaccine immunity might mean. I also feel quite confident from various non-events that absolutely no one in any position of agency in the UK has been doing so.

I also feel quite confident from various non-events that absolutely no one in any position of agency in the UK has been doing so

Planning has not been their strong point. It is frustrating, as it is bad for everyone.

I'm guessing that fading immunity would mean countries like the UK who have the means to vaccinate their populations would be scrambling to get a second set of vaccines before poorer countries have managed to acquire the first. If this happens, we could have major problems with the pandemic rolling on for years, as countries without access to the vaccine experience subsequent waves and mutations. COVAX, a global initiative to acquire vaccines for poorer countries (which the UK has the biggest single country donor, we can be proud of that at least) only has enough funds to vaccinate 20% of the population of eligible countries, and they have a funding shortfall.

Let's hope that is a worst case scenario for fading immunity. And I thought this year was going to be better .

Like I said, probably the only country in the world I would believe could do it on that scale would be the US. If they wanted too ...

Looks like they want to average of 1.25M shots a day this past week. Well capable of reaching and possibly exceeding 100M

www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/health/covid-vaccine-states-distribution-doses/

It is an unknown at the moment. Globally, we will have to step up production if this is the case. DH was pondering if it is possible to have the set of AstraZeneca vaccines for a second time, as they work by attaching the Covid protein spike to an unknown (to our immune systems) virus, in this case an adapted adenovirus, to generate an immune response. It generates the response as our immune systems haven't encountered the adenovirus before. Would they need to adapt the adenovirus or use another virus for the vaccine set to be used for a subsequent time, months or years down the line?

That's not quite right: the (vector) adenovirus delivers mRNA to the host (human) cells, which then produce the spike protein, which the immune system then reacts to. The issue here being that, if the body neutralises the virus before it can deliver the mRNA, the immune system never 'sees' the spike. On the plus side, the vector is replication-deficient: it doesn't multiply inside the body; this is helpful because it shortens the window in which the immune system 'sees' the vector.

If you want to review the literature, the term to search for is 'vector immunity'. Please bear in mind that a lot of the material out there refers to the use of human adenoviruses, while this is a simian adenovirus (ChAdOx1).

To adapt a phrase ; better to be inside the tent pssing out, than outside the tent being pssed on.

Personally, I'd move further from the tent, rather than enter and throw my lot in with a tent of people who seem to think it's an appropriate way to relieve themselves.

Thanks Gronky, that was helpful. Could they use other simian adenoviruses if they needed to?

LQ Sorry your parent is unwell

I'm guessing that fading immunity would mean countries like the UK who have the means to vaccinate their populations would be scrambling to get a second set of vaccines before poorer countries have managed to acquire the first.

You also need an infrastructure to know when a person presents with a (assumed genuine) certificate of vaccination needs to be re-vaccinated or asked to leave the country.

As soon as it was clear most peoples concerns about C19 were their holidays, and not the future existence of the human species, I knew there was going to be a series of clusterfucks of epic proportions all around the globe. And frankly, I don't think people are taking it seriously even now (not that you can blame them, given the lacksidaisical approaches in some quarters).

Well, if cutnpasteova would like a direct comparison - compare Ireland and Northern Ireland here, and suggest what might be responsible for the difference...

Could they use other simian adenoviruses if they needed to?

I'm afraid that's far enough outside of my field that I couldn't give a meaningful answer for this particular vaccine, specifically, I don't know what factors limit the choice of adenoviruses.

More generally, there are other non-human adenoviruses which have been shown to produce expression in human cells (turning the mRNA into the spike, though these studies were for gene therapy so it would be producing a different protein). Crucially they don't produce cross-reactivity (antibodies produced in response to one adenovirus responding to another). A large issue here is certifying the new vector. The Russian Sputnik vaccine uses a different vector so, assuming theirs has efficacy, it seems we're not entirely hemmed in on vector choices.

At the current time, we don't have any reports of vector immunity against ChAdOx1 (that I could find) and the non-infectious nature of the vector means that people won't be exposed to it outside of vaccinations.

UK - 1
EU - 0
On Vaccine procurement and deliverance.

It's nice to see us get something right finally. Now if we could just sort out those borders ...

*Worth remembering that even the US has vaccine supply issues - particularly with Pfizer. And they haven't approved AZ. Moderna also said they have production issues this week.

So they will be battling many of the issues the EU and UK have and they also didn't order as quickly as the UK albeit faster than the EU.

So my question here is exactly how are they dealing with that and what can everyone else learn from that?*

We can probably learn that a beggar my neighbour approach (the US is also very much engaged in vaccine nationalism) is very popular with voters.

I think, if we were a bit humble (I know that humility is in short supply) we might be asking questions about why other regulators have been slower to approve the AZ vaccine. The answer I think is that while all the vaccine companies have inevitably had some production issues - predictable and probably inevitable given the scale of this endeavour - AZ also managed to screw up one of their trials in a way that would get you the most enormous rocket up your arse from most ethics committees and regulators.

mathanxiety
Clavinova - So population control is only for the poor?

No - however;
In 2012, Melinda [Gates] donated a whopping $560 million towards efforts to increase access to contraception for women in developing countries.

Kamala Harris
My grandmother traveled across India, bullhorn in hand, to talk to women about accessing birth control. Fighting for critical health care is who I am & I won't stop pushing back against Republicans' shameful attempts to restrict birth control. Women deserve better.
May 9, 2020

mathanxiety
What do you imagine haulage firms do with their vehicles, @ Clavinova

Do you have a proper link to the letter from Jim Smith, Essex (is that an alias)? I can't really comment on the status of his company from an anecdote in a screen shot.

What is the measurable loss to London?

You didn't really answer my question - how does giving equivalence to the US (and more trade to Wall Street) benefit Frankfurt and Paris?

As one door closes, another door opens;

29 January 2021;
The London Stock Exchange today said it had completed its $27bn (£19.7bn) takeover of Refintiv, kicking off its new era as a major player in financial data.

The blockbuster deal, which was given the green light by EU regulators earlier this month, gives the bourse a significant footing in the information market and creates a new rival to Bloomberg. ...

The enlarged group will also play a key role in maintaining the City’s status as a global financial hub amid uncertainty over trading rules with the EU after Brexit.

www.cityam.com/london-stock-exchange-completes-27bn-refinitiv-takeover/

I think a bit of humility will also come in useful if it turns out the 12 week vaccination gap was unwise. It does look like over 80s may require two doses. If I were offered one dose of vaccine now, with no guarantee of a second shot, versus the J&J single shot vaccine in a month or so, I am not sure which I would choose.

UK - 1
EU - 0

Like I said, vaccine nationalism is very popular with voters of all stripes. It honestly disgusts me.

Don't think I want to hang around here any more :(

HannibalHayes
Well, if cutnpasteova would like a direct comparison - compare Ireland and Northern Ireland here, and suggest what might be responsible for the difference...

Population density?

Northern Ireland 137 (people/km2)
Ireland 70

@Mistigri

I think a bit of humility will also come in useful if it turns out the 12 week vaccination gap was unwise. It does look like over 80s may require two doses. If I were offered one dose of vaccine now, with no guarantee of a second shot, versus the J&J single shot vaccine in a month or so, I am not sure which I would choose.

My understanding (I'll be honest, I switched off around May) is that the vaccines efficiency has been given for it's administration in two doses.

Once you deviate from that, all bets are off.

For reasons best known to themselves, UK politicians have decided that the vaccine is just as effective in a one-off-don't-bother-coming-back dose, as the prescribed method.

I'm betting that's probably because the UK doesn't have a system capable of managing the needs for patients to be re-vaccinated at the best time. Certainly if the pigs arse that was T&T (whatever happened to ?????) is anything to go by.

Has any research been done into whether there is any significant variation in the transmissability of the virus across the demographics ? Or is current thinking a little bit intuitive ?

Mistgris - I always appreciate your contributions and read them fully.

Just scroll on by the posts that haven't contributed any independent thinking

....on the other hand , I found LouiseCollins28's post about the various stages that the different vaccines were at interesting. It was worth clicking through to and reading.

Population density?

You could say that.

@Mistigri

*UK - 1 EU - 0*

Like I said, vaccine nationalism is very popular with voters of all stripes. It honestly disgusts me.

Yes its like a SUN headline.

100s of '000s of europeans have died in this pandemic but what matters is putting one over on the other side, not seeking to reduce deaths and vaccinate the most vulnerable.

Europe appears to be counting vaccinations based on the 2nd dose been given.
If it turns out they were right, this saga may still have some way to go.

westcountrybylines.co.uk/meet-barry-hes-not-a-moaner-or-a-quitter-but-he-is-hacked-off-with-brexit/

....

Brexit, he says, should never have happened. The premise on which it was sold to voters bears no resemblance to the reality.

“People were hoodwinked by the right-wing press who are now crowing over how Boris got his deal. Good old Boris! But that deal is all smoke and mirrors. The detail is a disaster and the mainstream media aren’t reporting what is happening to business at the grassroots level. Business relies on openness, but we’re going in the opposite direction as a country. We’re damaging our relationships and making this country an unattractive, expensive place to visit. It’s mad.”

100s of '000s of europeans have died in this pandemic but what matters is putting one over on the other side, not seeking to reduce deaths and vaccinate the most vulnerable.

Two world wars, one world cup, doo dah.