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Brexit

Westministenders: Biden Time Til The Penny Drops

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2021 16:03

Next week sees a changing in the international guard with implications for the UK in a post Brexit world where we are starting to realise we are very much on our own and frozen out.

The government were able to cosy up with Trump much to the EU's distaste, but Biden is a whole different kettle of fish. Assuming of course that things go to plan next week and the USA don't end up with an almighty bloody mess on their hands.

The political landscape change means the US will become much more inward looking to try and sort its own shit out (amongst domestic terrorism and having run out of vaccine supplies with no stock available from Pfizer until June top of the agenda) and what little international diplomacy there is, is highly unlikely to be centred around the desparate needs of the UK.

The EU meanwhile are largely happy with their lot over the Brexit deal and to leave the UK to their fish stew. With the sole exception of Ireland, who strangely enough the EU and US will probably be very willing to help - putting the Irish into a unique bridging position between the two which they can use to capitalise on.

We will be schooled on the benefits of being in the EU the hard way it seems. The Thatcherite dream of frictionless trade has been well and truly krilled off. The future beckons with the beaucratic mess and spiralling cost of haulage to Europe making it financially not worthwhile even for big firms but especially for small businesses. A quick look at the cost of smart phones is revealling, and tells a story. Prior to the 1st you could buy from the EU. Now the only place shipping to the UK is through Hong Kong, with all the extra associated charges and customs. The price has gone up considerably. Already.

The fact that the government are only just starting to stay they are herring about problems and will endevour to resolve them just doesn't cut it. They were told of the issues years ago. They chose to ignore them. They had better things to do. Like go for a nice holiday at their second home in Europe or fancy dinner at an authetic French restuarant. Strangely enough for various reasons these pastimes are currently off the menu its starting to dawn just how we are stuck between a rock and a hard plaice as a consequence.

You didn't need to be a brain sturgeon to see this coming. It is exactly what was predicted. Queues of lorries as post Christmas trade picks up and stock piles run out, but also empty shelves where things like jigsaws, fresh vegetable, cheese, electricals and paper used to be. The sunlight uplands and promise of brexit opportunities are turning out to be a load of old pollocks. It will take years for some sectors to rebalance and adjust. If they make it through and don't end up on the rocks.

It is a turtle disaster for the economy. On top of the covid.

Even the pro-leave fishermen are starting to realise that the deal was a load of carp. And want to dump their rotten langoustines outside Downing Street. Their fish are far from happy and they have finally haddock with the government. It doesn't help that the fisheries minister has openly said she didn't read the deal because she was too busy organising a nativity. Which sums up the whole situation in a perfect way. Its not even incompetence, its total indifference and apathy.

The Penny will drop as the Pound does. We will learn that its better to be a big fish in a medium pond than a medium fish in a huge pond simply because of how the food chain works.

The sharks are slowly circling for Johnson and once the heat is off, and we get to the stage were the messaging doesn't read like 'We want covid to kill you whilst we have a Tory Bunfight' as it doesn't sit terribly well with the public.

The dust is settling and who does Johnson play pin the blame on now? This deal isn't the result of sabotage by remainers. This deal is his and his alone to own. Isolated at No10 Johnson is likely to start to feel increasingly like he has no friends. He has a whalely big job ahead of him to turn things around a plot a new course ahead to the future for HMS Britannia.

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DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 15:51

@Peregrina

Potentially Nissan is good news if they make batteries here and not in Japan, but I still see it as more of a standing still operation.
Batteries are the fusion power des nos jours

And I stand by my "everything changes" mantra that "motoring" is going to be very very different in the 21st century. Especially when the dubious promise of bigger batteries (and the investment needed to maybe make them) starts to intersect with a shift in travelling patterns.

No one I know that preaches the usual greenwash bollocks about renewables can actually run their house off grid.

Oh, and droning on about the environment again, batteries are buggers for needing really nasty to mine minerals. And I thought we are supposed to be past making poor people suffer for our lifestyle ?

ListeningQuietly · 22/01/2021 16:21

No one I know that preaches the usual greenwash bollocks about renewables can actually run their house off grid.
A friend of mine does
but its in Wales and they have hydro, wind and solar on their land
and use ground source and wood for heating

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 16:25

@ListeningQuietly

No one I know that preaches the usual greenwash bollocks about renewables can actually run their house off grid. A friend of mine does but its in Wales and they have hydro, wind and solar on their land and use ground source and wood for heating
Hardly scaleable.

My point stands. No one I know, etc ...

Fascinating how Bidens cancellation of the Canadian pipeline is being viewed as "costing 11,000" jobs, when the previous arguments against it were it's environmental costs. Speaks volumes about the power of the media.

Cheap power or a planet ? It's our choice.

ListeningQuietly · 22/01/2021 16:32

DGR
He is the exception that proves the rule
because he is an engineer with close links to the CAT and acres and acres of land and three streams.
None of the rest of us could do it.

KeystoneXL
Was never economic. Ever.

newstart1234 · 22/01/2021 16:38

I wish they’d go big with cycle paths and sack off cars for local journeys altogether. I don’t know anything about electric cars but can’t see how they’ll win over anyone who lives in a terrace or flat and drives.

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 16:39

He is the exception that proves the rule

The rule being that this fairy fantasy that we well all be living in solar panelled houses with the gentle hum of windmills above our heads is utter bollocks.

Renewables are good. But they're not the messiah. And they are generally peddled by people of Johnsonian depths of mendacity as a promise that we can march into the future living exactly the lifestyle we have now, despite the planet increasingly shrinking under the weight of humanity that seems determined to ignore the signs.

And if we take the easy route, we will make it that much harder for our kids, their kids, and the few generations beyond. Few as in "less than present" not few as in "one or two".

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 16:44

@newstart1234

I wish they’d go big with cycle paths and sack off cars for local journeys altogether. I don’t know anything about electric cars but can’t see how they’ll win over anyone who lives in a terrace or flat and drives.
I don't have much time for cyclists. Not since learning how much they detest wheelchair users.

When we can wean ourselves of the quaint idea that everyone can own their own transport, then we'll see some fundamental shifts. Given that means reverting to 1900 (I'm open to a decade either way) and the UK appears to be about 1950 and still receding, it's entirely possible that the UK could be the first nation in the world to make the change.

TartrazineCustard · 22/01/2021 16:47

@HarrietPierce

Brexit not going so well for June.

"June Mummery – champion of the "Brexit will be great for fishing" cause – has finally realised that Brexit will in fact destroy the fishing industry.

"I have no fish," she says..."

I am not laughing at her. The way she and so many like her have been conned has made me furious for the past 4 years, even as they've been slowly convinced that my disagreement with their vote could only be because I was "against democracy." (Insert eyeroll.)

I am from a working class background. In the 90s, I watched my dad's industry get pummelled by globalisation. I protested against globalistion as a student back in the 90s, when the press was eagerly calling the likes of Critical Mass "anarchists" and almost begging them to riot for the headlines. We lost - not becuase of the EU, but because globalisation was, well, GLOBAL. And I adapted - I became one of those tech bastards who can WFH during a pandemic.

My anger at the middle class Brits telling me that I'm "elitist" for recognising that leaving the EU wasn't going to cram the globalisation genie back in bottle will never quite die away, I think. Their nonsense was a bit part of the endless propaganda that convinced the "ordinary folks" that industry would return, fishing would become a high profit business, and there would be no need for immigration ever again.

(And wasn't there a passionate leaver visiting these threads a year or so back whose sole wish was for her kid to have a well paid unskilled job? That poor kid is going to have a hell of a wake up call if that reduction in worker's rights gets pushed through.)

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 16:49

I am not laughing at her. The way she and so many like her have been conned has made me furious for the past 4 years, even as they've been slowly convinced that my disagreement with their vote could only be because I was "against democracy."

As far as I am concerned the vote delivered a dud cheque, and Brexiteers have been trying to cash that ever since.

I have no qualms about my views on democracy to refuse to accept a result that was bought with magic beans.

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 16:53

And wasn't there a passionate leaver visiting these threads a year or so back whose sole wish was for her kid to have a well paid unskilled job?

Echos of miners striking for the right that their sons (obviously no interest in womens careers) rights to work down a mine. As a visiting American asked of Arthur Scargill on QT ... Why don't you want your kids to be doctors, or scientists or lawyers ? Why have they got to be miners ?

Now I think of it, Scargill and Farage really would have made a cracking double act.

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 16:54

Yes, but the Leavers seem to be expecting us one time Remainers to write out a new cheque for them.

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 16:58

DGR - I think there were miners who did want something better for their sons, but back in the 1950s and until the mid-sixties most miners children would have been in receipt of a Secondary Modern education, which was not the best preparation for careers in medicine, law or science.

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 17:00

@Peregrina

Yes, but the Leavers seem to be expecting us one time Remainers to write out a new cheque for them.
Not only is it a dud cheque. It's out of state too.
DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 17:11

@Peregrina

DGR - I think there were miners who did want something better for their sons, but back in the 1950s and until the mid-sixties most miners children would have been in receipt of a Secondary Modern education, which was not the best preparation for careers in medicine, law or science.
I don't think the remark was meant to be exhaustive or prescriptive. It was a rather interesting insight into what an American saw as a weird position to take where your reason for striking is not for your children (sons, that is) to have a better life than you. But just to continue the exact line as your forebears.

Which - very notably - is not a sentiment that appears to exist in every part of society. As the Patel and Sunak families might attest to.

Mamamia456 · 22/01/2021 17:19

DGRossetti - What a complete snob you sound. What's wrong with someone having an unskilled job? Everyone has different aspirations and different levels of intelligence. For some people no matter how hard they studied they would never be cut out to be a doctor or lawyer and some people wouldn't want that as a career.

Where would we be without refuse collectors, cleaners, shelf stackers etc and all the other people who do vital unskilled jobs.

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 17:21

@Mamamia456

DGRossetti - What a complete snob you sound. What's wrong with someone having an unskilled job? Everyone has different aspirations and different levels of intelligence. For some people no matter how hard they studied they would never be cut out to be a doctor or lawyer and some people wouldn't want that as a career.

Where would we be without refuse collectors, cleaners, shelf stackers etc and all the other people who do vital unskilled jobs.

What wrong with wanting to achieve the best you possibly can ?
Jason118 · 22/01/2021 17:24

The issue isn't with unskilled work per se. It's the way that unskilled workers will get shafted more by relaxing of workers rights.

inquietant · 22/01/2021 17:26

What wrong with wanting to achieve the best you possibly can ?

How do you measure 'best'?

I've very high aspriations for my children - I want them to be happy and make a positive contribution - and would be happy for them to do that in any way, skilled or unskilled.

I wouldn't assume that someone doing an unskilled job is an unskilled person.

DGRossetti · 22/01/2021 17:27

@Jason118

The issue isn't with unskilled work per se. It's the way that unskilled workers will get shafted more by relaxing of workers rights.
And how many doctors, lawyers scientists and MPs owe their positions to the unskilled jobs their parents had to do bringing them up ?

Snob am I ? It wasn't my choice to reject the Silver Jubilee street party because "too many Indians" lived in my part of the street. That was our local Tory councillor.

FrankieStein402 · 22/01/2021 17:33

I don’t know anything about electric cars but can’t see how they’ll win over anyone who lives in a terrace or flat and drives.

Won me over (flat dweller) - if you've never driven an electric car - try one, you'll not want to go back.

Electric vehicles really will be an industry that even our incompetent leaders should be able to get behind - but unless Nissan are willing to supply batteries to other UK manufacturers they are likely to be the only remaining car manufacturer in the UK in ~5 years.

[ I did the research to make sure I had enough public charge points within a few miles and got a big enough battery to ensure that I'd only need to charge once or twice a month.]

wewereliars · 22/01/2021 17:46

There is nothing at all snobby about aspiration, what a fatuous comment . Most parents want better for their children than they had themselves. I was a teenager in the South Wales valleys during the miners strike of 1984 and certainly would not have aspired to go down a pit, and neither did any of my friends. That is not to say I didn't hate Thatcher for deliberately wrecking the mining industry and the communities they supported to destroy the unions, with nothing to support said communities which are still economic wastelands today.

TatianaBis · 22/01/2021 17:54

I think issue in it’s original context was really that unskilled jobs are not commonly highly paid, and unskilled workers will suffer hugely from any reduction in employment rights

Shrillharridan · 22/01/2021 17:55

It smacks of "don't get above your station" doesn't it?
Know your place.
Which is, of course, EXACTLY what the farage and rees moggs of this world want.
A nicely docile underclass who will tug their forlock and be grateful.