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Brexit

Westministenders: Biden Time Til The Penny Drops

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2021 16:03

Next week sees a changing in the international guard with implications for the UK in a post Brexit world where we are starting to realise we are very much on our own and frozen out.

The government were able to cosy up with Trump much to the EU's distaste, but Biden is a whole different kettle of fish. Assuming of course that things go to plan next week and the USA don't end up with an almighty bloody mess on their hands.

The political landscape change means the US will become much more inward looking to try and sort its own shit out (amongst domestic terrorism and having run out of vaccine supplies with no stock available from Pfizer until June top of the agenda) and what little international diplomacy there is, is highly unlikely to be centred around the desparate needs of the UK.

The EU meanwhile are largely happy with their lot over the Brexit deal and to leave the UK to their fish stew. With the sole exception of Ireland, who strangely enough the EU and US will probably be very willing to help - putting the Irish into a unique bridging position between the two which they can use to capitalise on.

We will be schooled on the benefits of being in the EU the hard way it seems. The Thatcherite dream of frictionless trade has been well and truly krilled off. The future beckons with the beaucratic mess and spiralling cost of haulage to Europe making it financially not worthwhile even for big firms but especially for small businesses. A quick look at the cost of smart phones is revealling, and tells a story. Prior to the 1st you could buy from the EU. Now the only place shipping to the UK is through Hong Kong, with all the extra associated charges and customs. The price has gone up considerably. Already.

The fact that the government are only just starting to stay they are herring about problems and will endevour to resolve them just doesn't cut it. They were told of the issues years ago. They chose to ignore them. They had better things to do. Like go for a nice holiday at their second home in Europe or fancy dinner at an authetic French restuarant. Strangely enough for various reasons these pastimes are currently off the menu its starting to dawn just how we are stuck between a rock and a hard plaice as a consequence.

You didn't need to be a brain sturgeon to see this coming. It is exactly what was predicted. Queues of lorries as post Christmas trade picks up and stock piles run out, but also empty shelves where things like jigsaws, fresh vegetable, cheese, electricals and paper used to be. The sunlight uplands and promise of brexit opportunities are turning out to be a load of old pollocks. It will take years for some sectors to rebalance and adjust. If they make it through and don't end up on the rocks.

It is a turtle disaster for the economy. On top of the covid.

Even the pro-leave fishermen are starting to realise that the deal was a load of carp. And want to dump their rotten langoustines outside Downing Street. Their fish are far from happy and they have finally haddock with the government. It doesn't help that the fisheries minister has openly said she didn't read the deal because she was too busy organising a nativity. Which sums up the whole situation in a perfect way. Its not even incompetence, its total indifference and apathy.

The Penny will drop as the Pound does. We will learn that its better to be a big fish in a medium pond than a medium fish in a huge pond simply because of how the food chain works.

The sharks are slowly circling for Johnson and once the heat is off, and we get to the stage were the messaging doesn't read like 'We want covid to kill you whilst we have a Tory Bunfight' as it doesn't sit terribly well with the public.

The dust is settling and who does Johnson play pin the blame on now? This deal isn't the result of sabotage by remainers. This deal is his and his alone to own. Isolated at No10 Johnson is likely to start to feel increasingly like he has no friends. He has a whalely big job ahead of him to turn things around a plot a new course ahead to the future for HMS Britannia.

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Thread gallery
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SabrinaThwaite · 21/01/2021 23:00

And tomorrow’s Times:

Shoppers pay a third extra to get hold of EU goods

Westministenders: Biden Time Til The Penny Drops
Shrillharridan · 21/01/2021 23:02

Shocker
Except...oh....wait...
🙄

TheABC · 21/01/2021 23:12

So.Much.Winning.

I can't keep up with all these Brexit dividends!

Peregrina · 21/01/2021 23:14

What a fuckin ridiculous argument when the country owes trillions.

With taxpayers money being syphoned of to Boris's cronies - who then fail to deliver the goods.

But then Clavinova resorts to ad hominem jibes. Why is she even on these threads. Brexit is done, it's a swimming success according to her.

A Bonus - happy British fish, who won't be caught because they can't be sold to be eaten. So good for stock recovery. Although not really the benefit that Leavers wanted.

AKissAndASmile · 21/01/2021 23:14

Brexit is turning to shit so quickly that I almost can't believe it

Shrillharridan · 21/01/2021 23:16

You'd think they would be far too busy counting all the brexit dividends and preparing for the rapture sunlit uplands wouldn't you!?
Except....Oh....wait...

RedToothBrush · 21/01/2021 23:27

Only a third extra?

If you can get hold of it...

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HesterThrale · 21/01/2021 23:44

Question Time is focussing on Northern Ireland this week, and they're discussing a possible reunification referendum. Arlene Foster said she's 'a British citizen and no-one can take that away from her'.
I felt very bitter about that - I thought no-one could take away my EU citizenship from me, but I was wrong.

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 00:14

I recall with NI that the British Government has tried to take Irish citizenship away from some people. There is the famous case of the woman with the American husband, which has already been mentioned on these threads.

mathanxiety · 22/01/2021 05:58

I can quite clearly see a prominent heart-shaped EU flag in the Guardian article without even clicking on their link;

And? There is also a French flag, a Welsh flag, a bunch of grapes, and two wine glasses. Signifying exactly what?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/18/a-multiple-pile-up-in-the-fog-wine-agents-fury-at-brexit-red-tape

"Wine per bottle on retail will increase by at least £1 per bottle for mass market products; for niche small batch wines you are looking at £1.50 or even £2.00 on the bottle prices."

We can check the price of wine in 6-12 months time.

Would you consider the issue with the CHIEF system a minor irritation?

There wouldn't be 10,000 different combinations relating to wine.
Is this an area on which you are qualified to comment?

Companies not used to the system could apply for a government funded training course/grant (or use a broker/freight forwarder);
1 - But he is used to the system. He imports wines from outside the EU using a CHIEF system geared to imports from outside the EU.

2 - The British CHIEF system that has recently been taken off the shelf, dusted off, and put in use for imports from the EU is not fit for purpose, and apparently there is no way to get a reliable answer on technical details in real time, with email inquiries producing non-responsive answers with a turnaround of five days. He would have had faster and better answers in 1921.

3 - I strongly suspect that nobody in HM Govt has any idea how to fix the problems generated by the unworkable UK-EU CHIEF system, and hence no phone contact is possible to sort out issues. Call me cynical...

4 - The Twitter thread makes it clear that there is software that can be bought and used to work around the CHIEF system, but it costs £2k and there is a three month waiting list. Apparently Lambert is not the only business owner experiencing problems with CHIEF.

5 - Presumably using a freight broker would also add expense, which would in turn be passed on to the customers. You seem to pooh pooh this notion of added expense. We will indeed see who is right about this man's business, which has provided his livelihood for many years.

6 - The Guardian article makes it clear that HMRC considered him completely ready for Brexit. Apparently they were completely wrong. The government has let him down.

www.pkf-francisclark.co.uk/blog/deadline-extended-for-uk-government-customs-training-grants/

Apparently, a completely new customs declaration system is being introduced in a few months time in any case, although there will be an overlap to allow businesses to transfer over to the new system;

The move to the updated Customs Declaration Service (CDC) from the CHIEF system was planned before the UK voted to leave the EU.

What does the average business owner do in the meantime? And if the current system is not fit for purpose, are you anticipating a seamless transition to the alleged new system or something a bit bumpier? If this is a government-sponsored new system, if I were Lambert I would be inclined not to hold my breath waiting for an on-time roll out, or a product that worked.

What do you mean when you say 'planned'?
Because so far, evidence of planning with the needs of business in mind in the context of Brexit is thin on the ground. As an example, I offer training programmes for new customs systems still ongoing despite the fact that the UK has left the EU.

How many £££££££££££ do you believe the average importer keeps up his proverbial sleeve as a rainy day fund to use while the government gets its shit together, @Clavinova?

mathanxiety · 22/01/2021 06:08

Fewer diesel-guzzling lorries on our roads - less pollution from lorries only passing through our country to get somewhere else.
So now you are saying less traffic through Holyhead is a good thing?
Are you going to thank the Holyhead Plaid Cymru councillors for the massive favour they have done for Britain then?

Who owns those fume-spewing lorries?
Do you imagine that all of those lorries passing through are Irish or EU owned?

www.rha.uk.net/policy-campaigning/top-industry-issues/haulage-industry

89% of all goods transported by land in Great Britain are moved directly by road (but even the 20% that is not moved by road often needs road haulage to complete journeys to/from ports, airports or rail terminals). 
98% of all food and agricultural products in Great Britain are transported by road freight. 
98% of all consumer products and machinery in Great Britain are transported by road freight. 
2.54 million People work in the haulage and logistics industry.
The sector is the UK’s fifth largest employer.
600,000 Goods Vehicle driving licence holders.
Industry worth £124Bn GVA to UK economy.

And that is before you start calculating the value of suppliers to the haulage sector.

Mistigri · 22/01/2021 07:35

150 jobs also at risk in Fishguard, in addition to around a thousand in Holyhead.

But those are Welsh jobs and so they do not matter.

A crisis over national identity is the next big crisis coming. You cannot run the U.K. for the sole benefit of rich English people and racists, and expect the smaller partners in the union to swallow that pill without complaining.

Mistigri · 22/01/2021 07:44

50 jobs gone in Falmouth:

www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/19025933.sailors-creek-shellfish-flushing-brexit-despair/

"Martin Laity ... says he has had to lay off over 50 oyster fishermen and women because Defra hasn’t even created the form that allows them to export to Europe after Brexit.
He’s been told that it won’t be ready until April 21 but the shellfish season finishes on March 30th and doesn’t start again until November."

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 07:56

All I have gleaned from Clavinova's cut n pastes, is that it's fine to spend £1000 when previously something was free or had a nominal cost, and since the money will go to her Tory chums it's all good.

Plus now a faux concern for the environment.

Mistigri · 22/01/2021 08:01

I really think we need a collective agreement to stop engaging in bad faith discussions. I absolutely don't think that disagreeing is a bad thing, but responding to bad faith posts just riles people up and derails the thread without bringing anything positive.

I know that I'm guilty of sometimes taking the bait, but I've decided not to return while people are still engaging with this stuff.

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 08:09

What do you mean by bad faith discussions though? It could be said that a post about jobs lost is Bad Faith because Brexit is going swimmingly.

My last post might be seen as Bad Faith, but the Brexit Beleavers' stance does appear to be that any additional expense and jobs lost are just teething problems and that in fifty years time we will see what the benefits were. Since Thatcher laid waste to mining and heavy industry in the early 80s and it took until 2019 for people to forgive the Tories enough to vote them in, maybe that was what was meant.

I know we might now be trying to phase out coal if we hadn't already destroyed the industry, but good planning would have tried to ensure that other jobs were provided to replace them.

TatianaBis · 22/01/2021 08:29

@Clavinova

TatianaBis For example, a £200 coat bought from a German website could attract 12% or £24 customs duty. VAT at 20% is then applied to the total of £224, giving a VAT bill of £44.80. Once the courier has added its £11.50 admin fee, the UK consumer must pay £80.30 to the courier on the doorstep before it will hand over the item – adding around 40% to the coat’s price.

Have you deducted German VAT from the purchase price? The customer in the UK shouldn't be paying VAT in both countries.

If you read the article, and indeed HMRC regulations - UK VAT is applied to exports at the point of sale. In order to do that EU retailers need to be registered with HMRC.

Understandably, smaller EU retailers have decided it’s not worth the hassle, paperwork, extra costs, and thus are no longer trading with U.K. customers.

HappyWinter · 22/01/2021 08:31

I'm glad she is polite but it is derailing the threads. Is it a distraction tactic? It's not just these threads, she was told off by several posters on an education thread for suggesting that it was OK for children whose first language wasn't English to be in school over the Christmas holiday (when the covid rates were already rapidly increasing) as they didn't need a holiday because they were not Christian (also playing down any risk from covid). I'm sure that a lot of British people who are not particularly religious see Christmas for a time for family and friends (under normal circumstances) rather than a religious festival? I'm not following her around Mumsnet, just noticed the name on the thread! She just backs up the government line on every thread.

TatianaBis · 22/01/2021 08:35

[quote SabrinaThwaite]More winning here:

One of Wales' largest lamb exporters says the extra cost and paperwork of selling meat into the EU means it is making "virtually nothing".

"If the export paperwork and documentation and controls either side of the border continue, I think we will have to make redundancies," he [Randall Parker Food's general manager Dale Williams] said.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-55719498[/quote]
Oh if only Welsh farmers had warned the government that single market access was crucial eh?

40% of Welsh lamb is exported and 90% of that is to the EU.

www.itv.com/news/wales/2017-03-24/ukip-access-to-european-single-market-critical-for-welsh-farmers-post-brexit

Wales must have an equal voice at the negotiating table. Given that 90 per cent of Welsh food and drink exports go to the EU, it is vital that Wales has full tariff and quota free access to the Single Market. Failure to protect Wales's interests during negotiations could severely impact producers; for instance, lamb farmers

TatianaBis · 22/01/2021 08:39

Add in the double whammy of losing CAP subsidies as well as the single market (and for many welsh hill farmers CAP provides 80% of their income) - the impact is potentially devastating to rural communities.

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 08:40

Lamb Exports going down the pan.

As the saying goes Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance, and if the Johnson Government had negotiated in a timely fashion in good faith then these sorts of problems could have been ironed out to some extent. Only some extent because raising documentation for something which wasn't needed is still an additional overhead.

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 08:42

Cross post sorry.

Peregrina · 22/01/2021 08:49

It's a bit rich of Mark Reckless to complain though.

DrBlackbird · 22/01/2021 09:24

It seems to be a pattern here and on the Trump thread in how the voices adopting an oppositional view rely on a just a few argument types:

  1. It's just as bad / it's not as bad as elsewhere (LQ's false equivalence or a form of whataboutery) therefore it's fine here.
  2. Blaming any bad news on bias.

And generally missing the point of the original argument either deliberately or in the rush to chime in with one of the two above.

The only positive outcome is learning more detail from the logical and fact based rebuttals. So thank you to all for that.

Otherwise yes it is an attempt to derail the thread. Would be better if they resurrected the Brexit Arms to celebrate all things Brexity. No end of choices to pick from there...isn't there Hmm

RedToothBrush · 22/01/2021 09:26

I thought no one voted for Brexit to be poorer?

Oh wait.

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