Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Biden Time Til The Penny Drops

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2021 16:03

Next week sees a changing in the international guard with implications for the UK in a post Brexit world where we are starting to realise we are very much on our own and frozen out.

The government were able to cosy up with Trump much to the EU's distaste, but Biden is a whole different kettle of fish. Assuming of course that things go to plan next week and the USA don't end up with an almighty bloody mess on their hands.

The political landscape change means the US will become much more inward looking to try and sort its own shit out (amongst domestic terrorism and having run out of vaccine supplies with no stock available from Pfizer until June top of the agenda) and what little international diplomacy there is, is highly unlikely to be centred around the desparate needs of the UK.

The EU meanwhile are largely happy with their lot over the Brexit deal and to leave the UK to their fish stew. With the sole exception of Ireland, who strangely enough the EU and US will probably be very willing to help - putting the Irish into a unique bridging position between the two which they can use to capitalise on.

We will be schooled on the benefits of being in the EU the hard way it seems. The Thatcherite dream of frictionless trade has been well and truly krilled off. The future beckons with the beaucratic mess and spiralling cost of haulage to Europe making it financially not worthwhile even for big firms but especially for small businesses. A quick look at the cost of smart phones is revealling, and tells a story. Prior to the 1st you could buy from the EU. Now the only place shipping to the UK is through Hong Kong, with all the extra associated charges and customs. The price has gone up considerably. Already.

The fact that the government are only just starting to stay they are herring about problems and will endevour to resolve them just doesn't cut it. They were told of the issues years ago. They chose to ignore them. They had better things to do. Like go for a nice holiday at their second home in Europe or fancy dinner at an authetic French restuarant. Strangely enough for various reasons these pastimes are currently off the menu its starting to dawn just how we are stuck between a rock and a hard plaice as a consequence.

You didn't need to be a brain sturgeon to see this coming. It is exactly what was predicted. Queues of lorries as post Christmas trade picks up and stock piles run out, but also empty shelves where things like jigsaws, fresh vegetable, cheese, electricals and paper used to be. The sunlight uplands and promise of brexit opportunities are turning out to be a load of old pollocks. It will take years for some sectors to rebalance and adjust. If they make it through and don't end up on the rocks.

It is a turtle disaster for the economy. On top of the covid.

Even the pro-leave fishermen are starting to realise that the deal was a load of carp. And want to dump their rotten langoustines outside Downing Street. Their fish are far from happy and they have finally haddock with the government. It doesn't help that the fisheries minister has openly said she didn't read the deal because she was too busy organising a nativity. Which sums up the whole situation in a perfect way. Its not even incompetence, its total indifference and apathy.

The Penny will drop as the Pound does. We will learn that its better to be a big fish in a medium pond than a medium fish in a huge pond simply because of how the food chain works.

The sharks are slowly circling for Johnson and once the heat is off, and we get to the stage were the messaging doesn't read like 'We want covid to kill you whilst we have a Tory Bunfight' as it doesn't sit terribly well with the public.

The dust is settling and who does Johnson play pin the blame on now? This deal isn't the result of sabotage by remainers. This deal is his and his alone to own. Isolated at No10 Johnson is likely to start to feel increasingly like he has no friends. He has a whalely big job ahead of him to turn things around a plot a new course ahead to the future for HMS Britannia.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Shrillharridan · 21/01/2021 20:08

Unsalted butter???
(Faint)
Also you say??? (Runs)

pointythings · 21/01/2021 20:14

I just think the salt makes it taste not buttery. But it's OK, I'm forrin and I don't understand butter.

Shrillharridan · 21/01/2021 20:14

aldi

Shrillharridan · 21/01/2021 20:15

pointy I do not slice the french butter and eat it straight from the fridge.
Nope.
I also don't eat Nutella on a spoon from the jar.
you ain't seen nothing, right?

prettybird · 21/01/2021 20:15

Peregrina Ihave just swapped my old paper one for one of the photo card licences, but why should I have to paid £5.50 for something which was once free?

You do realise that the photo licence is only valid for 10 years, that it costs to renew it and that it's apparently an offence to drive with an "expired" licence Shock

pointythings · 21/01/2021 20:18

@Shrillharridan

pointy I do not slice the french butter and eat it straight from the fridge. Nope. I also don't eat Nutella on a spoon from the jar. you ain't seen nothing, right?
GrinGrinGrinGrinGrin

I have never put Nutella on a hot crumpet and watch its hazelnutty goodness melt in. Not me, guv.

Shrillharridan · 21/01/2021 20:20

Mmmmmmmmmmm
Melty....
(Channels homer simpson)
Arrrghhhhhhhh

pointythings · 21/01/2021 20:22
Peregrina · 21/01/2021 20:22

prettybird - I didn't have any choice. I will be 70 soon, so had to swap it. I applied as soon as I could, in case there was a delay with Covid - and it came by return of post. It still has the blue with yellow stars surrounding the UK.

TheElementsOfMedical · 21/01/2021 20:24

I see we're working hard on the CnP 🐿🐿🐿 again. Bit of a relief, really, as the plagiarised word clouds are more benign than the original words expressing the true feelings.

mathanxiety · 21/01/2021 20:28

I know this is dangerous territory, but we're both over 60 and would rather see our children (20s) vaccinated before us. We're retired and can manage our risks.

It would be useful to vaccinate all home carers whether professional or family members, and all staff in care homes including meal service personnel, cleaners, health aides, janitors, people providing personal services like hairdressers, etc.

prettybird · 21/01/2021 20:33

ShrillHarridan I do not slice the french butter and eat it straight from the fridge.

The nice thing about MN HFLC Boot Camp is that we are positively encouraged to eat slices of butter Grin My personal favourite is the Beurre d'Issigny slightly salted unpasteurised butter - but I also enjoy the Lidl sea salt crystals when they have it.

mathanxiety · 21/01/2021 20:34

The frontman continued: “I do think our government should have made the easing of restrictions for musicians and actors a higher priority. Every tour, individual actors and musicians should be treated as any other ‘Goods’ at the point of entry to the EU with one set of paperwork. Switzerland has borders with five EU countries, and trade is electronically frictionless. Why not us?”

Pinhead.

ListeningQuietly · 21/01/2021 20:46

And into the weekly analysis
(which I much prefer to the hourly knee jerk sites)
www.economist.com/britain/2021/01/23/delays-to-fish-and-meat-exports-are-not-just-teething-problems

Early evidence of the economic damage from Britain’s thin trade deal with the eu has been more olfactory than visual. Rather than the spectacle of queues of trucks outside Dover or empty British supermarket shelves, Brexit has instead brought the stench of pork rotting in Rotterdam and shellfish going off in its pallets. The government blames “teething problems”, but the new arrangements pose a long-term threat to farmers and fishers who want to export to the eu.

Listen to this story
Enjoy more audio and podcasts on iOS or Android.

The Scottish fishing industry reckons it has lost around £1m ($1.4m) a day of sales so far in January. Border delays and disruption are an issue for any sort of firm involved in international trade but pose a particular problem for those moving fresh produce. “It’s incredibly grim at the moment,” says James Withers, the head of Scotland Food and Drink, a trade association. “We’ve gone from a seamless border to a slow and expensive one.”

Customs are part of the problem. Britain and the eu have agreed to tariff-free and quota-free trade but goods crossing the border need forms, which must be correctly filled. Transposing a 6 and 9 in a 15-digit code can lead to hours of delays; mistakes can be made by either the exporting firm or the receiving one. Add in inexperienced border staff and mostly new and untested it systems, and there are multiple potential points of failure.

Food is now subject to sanitary and phytosanitary (sps) procedures to check it meets eu standards. According to industry bosses Britain has mostly waived such checks to ensure that supermarket shelves remained stocked, but the Europeans are enforcing the rules more rigorously. “Groupage” is a particular problem. A trailer loaded with a single type of good from a single firm needs only one customs declaration and one set of sps checks. But multiple goods from multiple firms grouped together all need individual checks. That can take hours; meat can rot and shellfish go off.

About 40% of British meat shipments to the eu are usually subject to groupage, according to the British Meat Processors Association (bmpa), an industry body. Shellfish-exporting firms are usually small, so groupage is common. The problems, says Duncan Buchanan, the Road Haulage Association’s policy director, is that the current eu rules on sps are designed for dealing with containers of frozen lamb from New Zealand rather than for mixed loads of fresh produce.

Some of the wrinkles should be ironed out in the weeks and months ahead. Importers and exporters will get to grips with the new arrangements, customs officials will gain experience and it bugs will be fixed. But firms will still be looking at extra costs of £20 to £150 per shipment from customs charges alone—enough to wipe out the profit margin for smaller exporters. Nick Allen of the bmpa says the new system is “convoluted, archaic and badly implemented” and worries that it will make lower-value exports unviable.

Some British fishing vessels have already started making the 72-hour round trip to land their catch in Denmark to get around the new customs frontier. If that continues, Britain’s processing firms will suffer. Meat traders warn that French supermarkets are talking of replacing British suppliers with their Spanish and eastern European peers. More trade friction will mean less trade.

Clavinova · 21/01/2021 20:48

Peregrina
why should I have to paid £5.50 for something which was once free?

Why should I pay extra taxes on my inheritance if Labour win a future general election? I'm not going to vote for them - can Conservative voters be exempt from any of Labour's excessive tax rises in your world?

ListeningQuietly · 21/01/2021 20:51

Why should I pay extra taxes on my inheritance if Labour win a future general election? I'm not going to vote for them - can Conservative voters be exempt from any of Labour's excessive tax rises in your world?
How much have the Tories added to Government borrowing since 2010 ?

jasjas1973 · 21/01/2021 20:54

@Clavinova

Peregrina why should I have to paid £5.50 for something which was once free?

Why should I pay extra taxes on my inheritance if Labour win a future general election? I'm not going to vote for them - can Conservative voters be exempt from any of Labour's excessive tax rises in your world?

Lol!

Can i be exempt from the tories excessive rises in council tax? or being forced to sale my house to pay for care, cause they can't be asked to sort our social care...?

What a fuckin ridiculous argument when the country owes trillions.

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 21/01/2021 20:57

Sorry to lower the tone but if you like actual butter (salted or not) you haven't lived until you've eaten "rowies" from North East Scotland, aka "butteries". Warm, with butter melting on them, is the most enjoyable way to risk a heart attack.

Back to more serious topics.
DH and I have paper-only licences. We're both disinclined to get a new one until we are forced to eg by age or a house move. Or to drive in Europe again. Still not sure what benefit there is to us of paying twice when it used to be free. Can anyone explain?

Clavinova · 21/01/2021 21:04

jasjas1973
What a ... ridiculous argument when the country owes trillions

How ridiculous for Peregrina to moan about £5.50 when she travels abroad regularly.

mathanxiety · 21/01/2021 21:09

“HM Revenue and Customs are being as helpful as they can be, but it’s not their fault they are civil servants. This is the government’s fault and they don’t give a shit about business. Boris Johnson said ‘fuck business’ and this is exactly what they are doing,” he said.

“We knew they would screw it up, so I’m not surprised. I’m just disappointed,” he told the Guardian.

It seems to me, @Clavinova, that Lambert does not tip his hat at all wrt his choice of Remain or Leave.

It rather seems to me that he is exasperated at the government's inability to provide a smooth transition to the shiny new Brexit world for British business, and he quoted Boris Johnson's immortal words, 'Fuck business', to illustrate his displeasure with the way Brexit has been delivered, not to pour scorn on Brexit itself as a concept or as an aspiration.

It is very possible you have mistaken frustration with the amateurism of the government for opposition to Brexit.

Here is the rest of your article from the Guardian (thank you for posting it btw) - hopefully this will finally lay your accusations against Lambert to rest and provide some insight for you into the difficulties faced by small import-dependent businesses:

Lambert, who is temporarily unable to import wine from the EU, said he would survive, but that ultimately consumers will lose out because there will still be a mountain of paperwork – even if the initial problems were sorted out.

“Wine per bottle on retail will increase by at least £1 per bottle for mass market products; for niche small batch wines you are looking at £1.50 or even £2.00 on the bottle prices. There’s another of those Brexit ‘dividends’,” he said.

Lambert started his business in Bridgend in 1992 and said this was the biggest threat he had faced, leading him to consider leaving the country when his children complete their education.

His was one of the many businesses that thought they were fully prepared, taking detailed steps to mitigate against the worst possible scenario, a no-deal Brexit, five months ago.

He went as far as setting up a bonded warehouse system to enable all the customs and duties paperwork to be done in house rather than on the border where they would face impediments in a no-deal scenario.

“It was very complicated to get to that point and in fact HMRC told us they were surprised at how prepared we were.

“By 9 December we had, as far as we were concerned, done everything we needed to do.

“Now I literally cannot bring wine in from the EU,” he said.

At the heart of the issue is a complex piece of paperwork, called Chief, that was used for imports from non-EU countries before Brexit.

“Now you would think that government would want to make using Chief as easy as possible as now there are millions of businesses having to use it,” said Lambert.

“Wrong, this is the only HMRC system where there is no number to call. Just an email with a five-day turn around. Remember that when government say they are doing all they can to help, “ said Lambert.

His company was familiar with the system as it had for years imported wines from places such as the US and Australia. The system worked for him “like clockwork” until Brexit hit.

It requires him to answer 64 questions just to import a bottle of wine and can easily go wrong when it comes to matching a commodity code and a customs procedure code (CPC) as that varies according to the type of wine and its alcohol strength.

“If I remember correctly, Chief has 10,000 different combinations depending on what type of import you’re doing, depending on the commodity code itself. So you have to get the combination between the commodity code and the CPC code exactly right, otherwise [it] won’t allow the declaration to happen, the system won’t give you the green light,” he said.

Lambert said the system is “antiquated” and so complex even companies like his that are used to using Chief have come a cropper with next to zero meaningful help from HMRC.

“I originally put a query into HMRC on 4 January to ask what’s the CPC code for this [a particular wine] and they said it depends on your declaration, after five days. That was the answer. Well that’s not really helping is it?”

Do you see the problems now?

Would you consider the issue with the CHIEF system a minor irritation?

jasjas1973 · 21/01/2021 21:13

@Clavinova

jasjas1973 What a ... ridiculous argument when the country owes trillions

How ridiculous for Peregrina to moan about £5.50 when she travels abroad regularly.

Where is the gain in Brexit? is the point, i think, Peregrina was making.

Just been watching how the port of Holyhead is losing out to ferries that now go direct to the EU and vice versa... cut out the middle man so to speak.
Doubtless Johnson has another few million to compensate the port and Wales?

borntobequiet · 21/01/2021 21:18

Ha ha whoever said it was right about the word clouds being more benign. Labour getting a (random and irrelevant) bashing - someone’s worried.

Clavinova · 21/01/2021 21:21

jasjas1973
Clav Maybe you should read your own link first?

I did;
And, whether we like it or not there is a window to iron out teething problems, because right now there are no [music] gigs on the horizon. Most people I spoke to admitted it was unlikely the live scene would get moving again until the fourth quarter of 2021, at the earliest. "This might look like a big problem at any other time," according to O'Brien. "But in the light of the pandemic we've got time to work things out."

Clavinova · 21/01/2021 21:23

someone’s worried.

Labour might find someone more appealing than Keir Starmer in 5/10 years - I quite liked Tony Blair at the time.

TatianaBis · 21/01/2021 21:24

www.theguardian.com/money/2021/jan/21/eu-website-purchases-the-import-charges-uk-customers-have-to-pay

For orders above £135 it is more complicated as they also attract import duty, which can range from 0% to 25% of the item’s value depending on what it is, what material it is made from and its declared value. There are thousands of different rates of duty and the system is difficult to navigate. Clothes typically attract a 12% customs duty, but it’s hard to generalise.

VAT is then added to the total – at the prevailing UK rate, which for most adult items is 20%. The couriers also add their admin charge of between £8 (Royal Mail) and £11.50 (UPS), or 2.5% of the amount paid to clear customs, with a minimum charge of £11 (DHL).

For example, a £200 coat bought from a German website could attract 12% or £24 customs duty. VAT at 20% is then applied to the total of £224, giving a VAT bill of £44.80. Once the courier has added its £11.50 admin fee, the UK consumer must pay £80.30 to the courier on the doorstep before it will hand over the item – adding around 40% to the coat’s price.