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Brexit

Westministenders: Biden Time Til The Penny Drops

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2021 16:03

Next week sees a changing in the international guard with implications for the UK in a post Brexit world where we are starting to realise we are very much on our own and frozen out.

The government were able to cosy up with Trump much to the EU's distaste, but Biden is a whole different kettle of fish. Assuming of course that things go to plan next week and the USA don't end up with an almighty bloody mess on their hands.

The political landscape change means the US will become much more inward looking to try and sort its own shit out (amongst domestic terrorism and having run out of vaccine supplies with no stock available from Pfizer until June top of the agenda) and what little international diplomacy there is, is highly unlikely to be centred around the desparate needs of the UK.

The EU meanwhile are largely happy with their lot over the Brexit deal and to leave the UK to their fish stew. With the sole exception of Ireland, who strangely enough the EU and US will probably be very willing to help - putting the Irish into a unique bridging position between the two which they can use to capitalise on.

We will be schooled on the benefits of being in the EU the hard way it seems. The Thatcherite dream of frictionless trade has been well and truly krilled off. The future beckons with the beaucratic mess and spiralling cost of haulage to Europe making it financially not worthwhile even for big firms but especially for small businesses. A quick look at the cost of smart phones is revealling, and tells a story. Prior to the 1st you could buy from the EU. Now the only place shipping to the UK is through Hong Kong, with all the extra associated charges and customs. The price has gone up considerably. Already.

The fact that the government are only just starting to stay they are herring about problems and will endevour to resolve them just doesn't cut it. They were told of the issues years ago. They chose to ignore them. They had better things to do. Like go for a nice holiday at their second home in Europe or fancy dinner at an authetic French restuarant. Strangely enough for various reasons these pastimes are currently off the menu its starting to dawn just how we are stuck between a rock and a hard plaice as a consequence.

You didn't need to be a brain sturgeon to see this coming. It is exactly what was predicted. Queues of lorries as post Christmas trade picks up and stock piles run out, but also empty shelves where things like jigsaws, fresh vegetable, cheese, electricals and paper used to be. The sunlight uplands and promise of brexit opportunities are turning out to be a load of old pollocks. It will take years for some sectors to rebalance and adjust. If they make it through and don't end up on the rocks.

It is a turtle disaster for the economy. On top of the covid.

Even the pro-leave fishermen are starting to realise that the deal was a load of carp. And want to dump their rotten langoustines outside Downing Street. Their fish are far from happy and they have finally haddock with the government. It doesn't help that the fisheries minister has openly said she didn't read the deal because she was too busy organising a nativity. Which sums up the whole situation in a perfect way. Its not even incompetence, its total indifference and apathy.

The Penny will drop as the Pound does. We will learn that its better to be a big fish in a medium pond than a medium fish in a huge pond simply because of how the food chain works.

The sharks are slowly circling for Johnson and once the heat is off, and we get to the stage were the messaging doesn't read like 'We want covid to kill you whilst we have a Tory Bunfight' as it doesn't sit terribly well with the public.

The dust is settling and who does Johnson play pin the blame on now? This deal isn't the result of sabotage by remainers. This deal is his and his alone to own. Isolated at No10 Johnson is likely to start to feel increasingly like he has no friends. He has a whalely big job ahead of him to turn things around a plot a new course ahead to the future for HMS Britannia.

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Peregrina · 18/01/2021 14:56

I think this is difficult. MIL in her 90s has had her first dose, but she is mostly housebound and isn't likely to go anywhere to catch Covid, but she has carers coming in. Personally I think their need is every bit as great as hers, especially since they are going from household to household.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2021 14:59

@ListeningQuietly

My mother has had her first dose and now is counting down the days till she is safe to mingle. 2nd dose is not on her radar .....
She shouldn't be mingling with anyone!

This troubles me tbh. A bunch of elderly who think that now they are vaccinated they are safe to go and do whatever when up to now they have very firmly stayed home. It means more people out than previously which has the potential to increase infections through changed behaviour.

There is no evidence saying that because you have a vaccination you can't transmit the virus. Indeed there are hints to say that you still can already appearing. And there one shot effectiveness is still signicantly lower than the double dose.

A one shot policy is particularly risky in encouraging a false sense of security to those who have had it whilst also potentially endangering the rest of the population who haven't had it.

I think we could start to problems along these lines with a few really heart breaking stories to illustrate the point and the danger of trust in the vaccination programme being eroded.

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DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 14:59

@Peregrina

I think this is difficult. MIL in her 90s has had her first dose, but she is mostly housebound and isn't likely to go anywhere to catch Covid, but she has carers coming in. Personally I think their need is every bit as great as hers, especially since they are going from household to household.
By that logic the carers should have it before your MiL ...
DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 15:01

A bunch of elderly who think that now they are vaccinated they are safe to go and do whatever when up to now they have very firmly stayed home.

I think that's a bit harsh. It's not like it's winter and the chances of slips and falls with the resultant strains on A&E are increased is it ?

Peregrina · 18/01/2021 15:07

I think MIL might well have been happier to let the carers have it first, but one other DC organised it for her, so she went along with it.

I think one of the problems now with some people thinking that they've had one dose and whayhay they are free to go out, is that the Government has spent a year sending out mixed and contradictory messages, so we no longer know what we should or must do. If they had shown more competence with the earlier steps then people now might be inclined to listen.

ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 15:07

I agree that carers should be vvv high priority - they go into the homes of those at highest risk
but least likely to be put onto ICU beds sadly

My mother is fit and well and has already been mixing with people in her support froth bubble is too narrow a term
including her neighbour who is 20 years older than her !

She is absolutely bored out of her mind after nearly a year of mostly her own company
and she is not in any way unique.

Yet again the messaging about immunity is very poor.
still a lot more noise than light

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2021 15:26

@DGRossetti

A bunch of elderly who think that now they are vaccinated they are safe to go and do whatever when up to now they have very firmly stayed home.

I think that's a bit harsh. It's not like it's winter and the chances of slips and falls with the resultant strains on A&E are increased is it ?

By that logic the carers should have it before your MiL ...

Arguably they should tbh.

The problem is that we have got this mindset which hasn't been challenged that your vaccination is your magic bullet and at which point you are no longer tied to the same responsibilities as everyone else.

Its interesting the government are actively discouraging people from booking holidays abroad over the summer after theres been a surge in the over 50s doing so believing that they will be vaccinated and will therefore be allowed to go.

The government has been quitely saying that overseas travel may require a stay in a covid hotel instead of the quarratine at home policy we've seen to date, because they are concerned about new strains which the vaccine doesn't respond being imported.

It is a pretty good example of how expectation management isn't really being done as it should.

Lets face it, expectation management is pretty much the antithetis of Johnson.

I think there will be a lot of rude awakening to come on covid yet...

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ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 15:36

I know one real growth industry BTW - converting large vans into camper vans so that Brits can go on "staycations" even when the hotels are full Grin

DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 15:39

@ListeningQuietly

I know one real growth industry BTW - converting large vans into camper vans so that Brits can go on "staycations" even when the hotels are full Grin
As someone who caravanned for many years, there are too many problems with that. Starting with the racial intolerance in the UK towards travellers.

Once again, for the hard of thinking: The UK is nothing like the U fucking S of fucking A (nod to RTB there).

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2021 15:43

@ListeningQuietly

I know one real growth industry BTW - converting large vans into camper vans so that Brits can go on "staycations" even when the hotels are full Grin
DH has been after one for months. We will get one. I'm sure he would have got one but for the fact that everytime he sees a decent one, its in another area of the country and restrictions come in to banjax it.

In fairness he has been after one for about 2 years but it hasn't been practical with such a small child. Now he wants to take him adventuring though...

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DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 15:49

You'll only be allowed to camp overnight at approved sites, for a start. Not just pull up in a layby and start cooking. And when you see how much they charge, you might start going abroad again.

There's also the question of moving around when you are wherever you are. Even a medium sized campervan is a PITA to go touring in. You might end up towing a car behind you for when you get there.

One advantage for the less able is that at least you are taking a known environment with you. After a few "well that's made our lives interesting" experiences with claims of disabled facilities and the reality upon arrival (when you can hardly turn back) we decided to caravan to ensure we always had accessible facilities.

Also meant we saw so much more of our own country.

TatianaBis · 18/01/2021 15:49

Wrt vaccine rollout - one has to wonder why the testing and track and trace has been so shit by comparison. If they can organise vaccines they can organise the rest.

Perhaps the answer lies with private sector involvement.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2021 15:56

@DGRossetti

You'll only be allowed to camp overnight at approved sites, for a start. Not just pull up in a layby and start cooking. And when you see how much they charge, you might start going abroad again.

There's also the question of moving around when you are wherever you are. Even a medium sized campervan is a PITA to go touring in. You might end up towing a car behind you for when you get there.

One advantage for the less able is that at least you are taking a known environment with you. After a few "well that's made our lives interesting" experiences with claims of disabled facilities and the reality upon arrival (when you can hardly turn back) we decided to caravan to ensure we always had accessible facilities.

Also meant we saw so much more of our own country.

It depends entirely on what you plan to do and where. Its a reasonable thing for DH to be considering due to his interests.
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RedToothBrush · 18/01/2021 16:02

Also if I have a choice between a tent v camper van...

Remember the deal is only still provisional...

Tony Connelly @tconnellyRTE
The EU will seek an extension to the deadline by which the free trade agreement with the UK must be ratified, @rtenews has learned.

Two sources have said member states want to extend the deadline from the end of Feb to some time in April.

2/ RTE News also understands that the Slovak Commissioner Maros Sefcovic, who is an executive vice president of the Commission, will be the EU’s representative on the new Joint Parternship Council (JPC) which will manage the new relationship with the UK.

3/ Sefcovic is already the EU chair of the Joint Committee, which has been overseeing the implementation of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement, including the Northern Ireland Protocol.

4/ The treaty is currently being provisionally applied and will only be formally ratified once the European Parliament gives its consent.

5/ The extension request is designed to give both member states and the European Parliament more time to scrutinise the treaty and to allow the text to be translated into 23 official languages.

6/ Because the EU UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TC) was struck long past several informal deadlines, both sides agreed that the treaty would apply provisionally on Jan 1, with a target date of the end of Feb for the treaty to be formally ratified by the European Parliament.

7/ However, the EU now wants that deadline to be pushed back until April.

8/ Meanwhile, Mr Sefcovic’s candidacy is expected to be discussed by the College of Commissioners on Wednesday

9/ It’s understood there is a sense of urgency to get the JPC up and running as it would be the forum through which the EU would seek the approval of the UK to extend the period of provisional application of the treaty until April.

10/ According to two sources, member states are keen to get a greater understanding of the governance aspect of the treaty, especially the circumstances in which retaliatory action can be taken if there is a breach of the level playing field provisions.

11/ National capitals are also pressing to have a more assertive role in deciding if the level playing field provisions have been breached.

12/ Sources say member states want a stronger voice in the area, alongside the European Commission, which traditionally monitors the application of free trade agreements.

13/ It’s also understood that the EU wants an extension of provisional application because of the length of time needed to translate the 1,200 page treaty into the EU’s official languages.

14/ “The European Parliament needs more time, the Council [of the European Union] needs more time to produce the authentic language versions and there's also this discussion on governance which is also going to be more protracted than people thought,” one diplomat said.

15/ “Nobody wants to rush a conclusion by the end of February so a number of member states are saying we need to do it later.”

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DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 16:02

It depends entirely on what you plan to do and where. Its a reasonable thing for DH to be considering due to his interests.

Well obviously. But I'd fear for the environment if the number of motorhome owners doubled overyear with no increase in available pitches.Bearing in mind a lot of that land is going to be lost to farming, if project Brexit goes to plan .....

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 18/01/2021 16:13

DH has been hankering after a motor home since last summer. They are in short supply, with long waiting lists for new ones land have you seen the prices?!) fortunately Unfortunately he hasn't seen one that meets his exacting requirements yet. Not helped by the lockdown restrictions, obviously. In any event I'm not sure we'll be going abroad in 2021.

ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 16:16

DGR
My friends are of the generation that was at the Battle of the Beanfield and Treworgey
niceties like camping fees kinda pass them by Wink

RTB
There is still LOTS of scope for further hiccups with the deal

TatianaBis · 18/01/2021 16:18
  • Dido Harding asked about Test and Trace
  • Dido Harding rejects claims test and trace only having marginal impact on transmission

Asked about the main lesson she has learned, she says that you can only deliver a service like this as part of an integrated network of different organisations. Everyone has to play their part, she says. (No shit!)

Q: How effective is test and trace?

Harding says you can measure that in a number of ways.

She says in October test and trace was reducing R, the reproduction number, by between 0.3 and 0.6.

And she says by March that should be a reduction of between 0.5 and 0.8.

She says the service is breaking chains of transmission.

She says that every minute 965 people are being swabbed.

She says every minute of the working day 198 people a minute are being successfully traced.

And she says the test-and-trace infrastructure is helping to provide the analysis as to how the disease is spreading.

Q: How does that square with Sage saying a few months ago that your impact on transmission was “marginal”?

Harding says Sage said that a while back. She does not accept that. She thinks the service is having a “material” impact.

Meg Hillier, the Labour chair of the committee, asks about mass testing in schools, and why the MHRA has not approved the approach being adopted by the government.

Harding says it is not quite right to say the MHRA do not approve.

She says schools have been doing this on a pilot basis. The evidence is being shared with the MHRA.

Taken from: Guardian Live Feed

TatianaBis · 18/01/2021 16:21

testing and track and trace

Apols brain fart - should say testing and tracing.

DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 16:29

Dido Harding asked about Test and Trace []- Dido Harding rejects claims test and trace only having marginal impact on transmission

Probably not the best day for that, really

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/uk-now-has-the-highest-covid-death-rate-in-the-world/18/01/

New Covid figures have revealed the UK per capita rate of deaths is currently the highest in the world, marking another grim milestone in the government’s pandemic response.

So at least we are world beating at something.

TatianaBis · 18/01/2021 16:37

I also notice from that link that 4 deer have been killed by dogs in Richmond Park since March 2020 lockdown. They think it’s inexperienced dog owners not knowing ‘best conduct’ around wildlife. That’s my local park. Idiots.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/dog-owner-in-court-after-fatal-attack-on-deer-in-london-park/18/01/

DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 16:42

[quote TatianaBis]I also notice from that link that 4 deer have been killed by dogs in Richmond Park since March 2020 lockdown. They think it’s inexperienced dog owners not knowing ‘best conduct’ around wildlife. That’s my local park. Idiots.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/dog-owner-in-court-after-fatal-attack-on-deer-in-london-park/18/01/[/quote]
But they do cull the deer anyway ?

Just introduce some wolves.

TatianaBis · 18/01/2021 16:46

They kind of already have.

TatianaBis · 18/01/2021 17:04

Polly Toynbee on Brexit and Schadenfreude

ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 17:11

Interesting that comments are not open on Polly's article