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Brexit

Westministenders: Biden Time Til The Penny Drops

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2021 16:03

Next week sees a changing in the international guard with implications for the UK in a post Brexit world where we are starting to realise we are very much on our own and frozen out.

The government were able to cosy up with Trump much to the EU's distaste, but Biden is a whole different kettle of fish. Assuming of course that things go to plan next week and the USA don't end up with an almighty bloody mess on their hands.

The political landscape change means the US will become much more inward looking to try and sort its own shit out (amongst domestic terrorism and having run out of vaccine supplies with no stock available from Pfizer until June top of the agenda) and what little international diplomacy there is, is highly unlikely to be centred around the desparate needs of the UK.

The EU meanwhile are largely happy with their lot over the Brexit deal and to leave the UK to their fish stew. With the sole exception of Ireland, who strangely enough the EU and US will probably be very willing to help - putting the Irish into a unique bridging position between the two which they can use to capitalise on.

We will be schooled on the benefits of being in the EU the hard way it seems. The Thatcherite dream of frictionless trade has been well and truly krilled off. The future beckons with the beaucratic mess and spiralling cost of haulage to Europe making it financially not worthwhile even for big firms but especially for small businesses. A quick look at the cost of smart phones is revealling, and tells a story. Prior to the 1st you could buy from the EU. Now the only place shipping to the UK is through Hong Kong, with all the extra associated charges and customs. The price has gone up considerably. Already.

The fact that the government are only just starting to stay they are herring about problems and will endevour to resolve them just doesn't cut it. They were told of the issues years ago. They chose to ignore them. They had better things to do. Like go for a nice holiday at their second home in Europe or fancy dinner at an authetic French restuarant. Strangely enough for various reasons these pastimes are currently off the menu its starting to dawn just how we are stuck between a rock and a hard plaice as a consequence.

You didn't need to be a brain sturgeon to see this coming. It is exactly what was predicted. Queues of lorries as post Christmas trade picks up and stock piles run out, but also empty shelves where things like jigsaws, fresh vegetable, cheese, electricals and paper used to be. The sunlight uplands and promise of brexit opportunities are turning out to be a load of old pollocks. It will take years for some sectors to rebalance and adjust. If they make it through and don't end up on the rocks.

It is a turtle disaster for the economy. On top of the covid.

Even the pro-leave fishermen are starting to realise that the deal was a load of carp. And want to dump their rotten langoustines outside Downing Street. Their fish are far from happy and they have finally haddock with the government. It doesn't help that the fisheries minister has openly said she didn't read the deal because she was too busy organising a nativity. Which sums up the whole situation in a perfect way. Its not even incompetence, its total indifference and apathy.

The Penny will drop as the Pound does. We will learn that its better to be a big fish in a medium pond than a medium fish in a huge pond simply because of how the food chain works.

The sharks are slowly circling for Johnson and once the heat is off, and we get to the stage were the messaging doesn't read like 'We want covid to kill you whilst we have a Tory Bunfight' as it doesn't sit terribly well with the public.

The dust is settling and who does Johnson play pin the blame on now? This deal isn't the result of sabotage by remainers. This deal is his and his alone to own. Isolated at No10 Johnson is likely to start to feel increasingly like he has no friends. He has a whalely big job ahead of him to turn things around a plot a new course ahead to the future for HMS Britannia.

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ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 12:10

Re Rosslare :
Its one of the few ferry ports I can think of that has LOADS of space to expand
and its a part of the country that would benefit from the increased traffic and footfall
because its not already congested

I can see Dublin actively undermining all parts of the Land Bridge
AND
providing an alternate route for goods getting to Northern Ireland

What a fantastic result for Arlene Grin

Clavinova · 18/01/2021 12:10

TheElementsOfMedical

It's not a question of people 'lying' - but if someone has already decided that Brexit is 'bad' and they want to leave the country because of it, then every new process is going to seem like a major irritation rather than a minor one - much the same as the views expressed on here. On the other hand, the cycle companies had a positive outlook for the future. The wine importer estimated that the retail price of wine would increase by at least £1 per bottle for mass market products and £1.50 - £2 per bottle for niche, small batch wines (from RedToothBrush's c&p) - easy enough to check whether he is right in the next 6 -12 months.

DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 12:15

@borntobequiet

The Republic of Ireland has a great deal to offer (as I’ve said before), and a great deal to gain now the UK has deliberately crippled itself. Predominantly English speaking. A young, well educated population. Strength in IT, pharmaceuticals, finance. Resilient. Very close ties with the USA, especially now with Joe “I’m Irish” Biden in charge (hooray). And a member of the EU.
I wish them all the best. It would richly ironic if Brexit moved Ireland into the front row of the EU.
Mistigri · 18/01/2021 12:15

The fishing protest at Westminster is getting some traction on social media. I really, really hope that this is splashed all over the evening news because these people have had their livelihood stolen from them by English racists and lying politicians.

Peregrina · 18/01/2021 12:16

I suspect that the new Ireland - France and Ireland - NL ferries which have immediately sprung up are something that the Johnson Government never even thought about. If they had thought their response would be 'It won't happen'. Well it has.

As was the need to negotiate fishing rights with Norway, which isn't in the EU either.

ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 12:17

The wine importer estimated that the retail price of wine would increase by at least £1 per bottle for mass market products and £1.50 - £2 per bottle for niche, small batch wines (from RedToothBrush's c&p) - easy enough to check whether he is right in the next 6 -12 months.
Indeed.
And as wine now costs not much more than it did before the SM despite all other factors rising
I suspect he knows rather more about it that folks who just C&P

Clavinova · 18/01/2021 12:19

12 January 2021;

Seven rail proposals to level up the UK - including Irish Sea tunnel for trains.

www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/seven-rail-proposals-level-up-19607458

Peregrina · 18/01/2021 12:20

I hope the Fish protest gets more traction, and that Rees-Mogg is not allowed to forget his fatuous comment about Happy British Fish. This is particularly galling from a man who has already made millions out of Brexit, (while sitting on his arse, not doing a dangerous job at sea).

VanillaSheHer · 18/01/2021 12:21

@Mistigri

The fishing protest at Westminster is getting some traction on social media. I really, really hope that this is splashed all over the evening news because these people have had their livelihood stolen from them by English racists and lying politicians.
To be fair, lots of Scottish fishing areas were staunchly pro-Brexit.

I feel for the ones who weren’t, but others just would not listen to predictions of loss of access to lucrative markets (e.g.Spain). They were only concerned about barring EU boats from UK waters.

Mistigri · 18/01/2021 12:23

Irish Sea tunnel for trains.

Insane. (Perhaps marginally less insane than a bridge). About as serious as regular press articles on mining asteroids for rare metals.

jasjas1973 · 18/01/2021 12:25

Seven rail proposals to level up the UK - including Irish Sea tunnel for trains

Yes the EU prevented the UK from investing in its infrastructure....not.

Try again....

Mistigri · 18/01/2021 12:27

To be fair, lots of Scottish fishing areas were staunchly pro-Brexit.

Trade is insanely complicated. These people were lied to - they were lied to about frictionless trade, about the great trade deal. Yes, they were naive and selfish (aren't we all). But the punishment for being naive and selfish shouldn't be the loss of your business and the destruction of your community.

These are not just implementation hiccups - the whole business model will have to change. These businesses may simply not longer be viable.

Peregrina · 18/01/2021 12:27

Yawn, Clavinova Yawn.

Proposals DO NOT TRANSLATE INTO ACTION.

I note for example an improvement is suggested to the Manchester - Chester - Bangor - Holyhead route. I know the area well, and know the spot where that MP is standing. This could and should have been done twenty or thirty years ago.

But since the electrification of the Great Western Route from Paddington to Bristol/Oxford got paused somewhere around Didcot, when it was due to be completed in 2017 then I am not going to hold my breath.

ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 12:28

[quote Clavinova]12 January 2021;

Seven rail proposals to level up the UK - including Irish Sea tunnel for trains.

www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/seven-rail-proposals-level-up-19607458[/quote]
Oh my goodness
you did not really think that article would help your argument did you ?
Really?
Look at a map !!!!

DGRossetti · 18/01/2021 12:31

@Peregrina

I suspect that the new Ireland - France and Ireland - NL ferries which have immediately sprung up are something that the Johnson Government never even thought about. If they had thought their response would be 'It won't happen'. Well it has.

As was the need to negotiate fishing rights with Norway, which isn't in the EU either.

A brief dip into the history books would show that accidents (if we call Brexit an accident from the EU perspective) can sometimes be fortuitous. Indeed we have a word for it in English: serendipity (which DW calls our home Grin)

So if that is the case, then at least some good will have come from Brexit.

Peregrina · 18/01/2021 12:32

I should have added that with the direct Ireland - Continental EU routes opening up and the fall off in traffic at Holyhead - which may or may not be permanent, the saying 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted' comes to mind.

borntobequiet · 18/01/2021 12:33

Irish Sea tunnel for trains

I once read a story that featured a bridge to the moon. Just because you can say the words doesn’t mean it’s feasible in real life.

Mistigri · 18/01/2021 12:34

Just as a general comment, infrastructure projects take decades. The French are good at big rail projects (I think that's a fair claim), but nevertheless the planned TGV line between Bordeaux and Toulouse won't be delivered until 2027 at the earliest (studies first done in 2006).

Peregrina · 18/01/2021 12:34

Irish Sea Tunnel. Garden Bridge. Shorthand for taxpayers money spaffed up the wall to boost Boris Big Bollocks Johnson.

jasjas1973 · 18/01/2021 12:37

On the other hand, the cycle companies had a positive outlook for the future

Lack of competition will be great for them, they won't have to compete with those nasty EU suppliers

HappyWinter · 18/01/2021 12:40

An inability to foresee and plan for problems is a national weakness

Definitely Red, there hasn't been much in the way of forward planning. On the Covid response or on Brexit.

I hope it doesn't come to that @Sostenueto with Covid but I see where you are coming from. Even Matt Hancock was saying that immunity from the vaccine may only last six months or a year. It's going to be like painting the Forth bridge.

Clavinova · 18/01/2021 12:41

ListeningQuietly
you did not really think that article would help your argument did you?

What is my argument?

Chersfrozenface · 18/01/2021 12:44

A proposal for an Irish Sea tunnel for trains first saw the light of day in April of last year.

Here's an article from New Civil Engineer
www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/proposal-revealed-for-irish-sea-rail-tunnel-link-30-04-2020/

And a technical briefing from the Institute of Civil Engineers on various mooted crossings.
www.ice.org.uk/getattachment/knowledge-and-resources/briefing-sheet/the-irish-sea-crossing-conundrum/irish_sea_crossings.pdf.aspx

As the first article notes, Northern Ireland's railways are a different gauge to GB's, so container transhipment onto NI trains or lorries might be needed. Not to mention a lot of infrastructure on the Scottish side.

And for what? GB / island of Ireland transport will be affected by customs and borders problems.

Not much benefit for the land bridge - who wants to schlepp up and down to South West Scotland in order to get to Ireland?

ListeningQuietly · 18/01/2021 12:44

Your extract gave the impression that you think Brexit and Johnson will lead to levelling up
but when it is then an article about trains under the Irish Sea .....

TheElementsOfMedical · 18/01/2021 12:46

if someone has already decided that Brexit is 'bad'

🐿 What a neat little circular stitch-up that no doubt works perfectly for the intended audience (which is not the regulars on this thread, natch) - magically vanishes everyone who voted Remain and has had the temerity not to declare conversion to the new Breligion, anyone who can be detected to have the taint of foreign, as well as anyone who points out any lack of unicorns. 🐿