Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Where's my milk and cheese?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/01/2021 23:47

The 'smooth' exit from transition now leads to a million and one little things that you can't get hold of or took completely for granted.

Why is sainsbury in NI selling spa milk? Why can't you get hold of your favourite food stuff?

Its a slow strangulation of the country.

In which you get to learn all about the merits of the EU and what a donkey Johnson really is.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
JustAnotherPoster00 · 11/01/2021 09:48

Still too many around willing to doff their cap at their betters and that attitude just doesnt seem to want to fuck off in this country.

I do honestly get some of the sentiments that Brexiters always harp on about, we as a nation could be better, why not be the greenest country on earth, the most educated populace, the healthiest of people with a holistic attitude towards crime and punishment but nah we'll just do Tories instead. I know thats a bit hippy of me to want that and in some ways I felt the progressive aspects of Corbyns policies were at least a tiny tiny baby step in that direction. I read the ragged trousered philanthropist every year and it never fails to amaze me that each and every year this country hasnt moved on from the attitudes portrayed in that book

I also think some of the problems Starmer will have in 2024 will be a drastically reduced Labour membership for campaigning, the young are leaving in quite substantial numbers I've been told but that could be wishful thinking on the part of the person who told me because I dont think there is anything other than anecdata to go on for at least six months

thecatfromjapan · 11/01/2021 09:51

And, yes, FrankieStein*, I agree with you.

There is a real problem with how messages reach the public. Starmer has far less access to major platforms than people realise - even as LOTO - and then there is a major problem with how messages that are delivered are filtered through to the public.

Many people will only have an idea of what Starmer actually said by way of social media accounts, which have been both abbreviated and filtered by agenda.

I really don't know what you do about that.

Sarah Ditum has an excellent article about why the death of local newspapers was so devastating for our politics: a really material/first-person perspective on this modern dilemma, that offered a really grounded way at looking at the problem.

And I know RedToothBrush has also offered analysis of this.

What the solutions are, though, I just don't know.

thecatfromjapan · 11/01/2021 09:53

You know, if we came up with a solution, we'd make our fortunes ...

JustAnotherPoster00 · 11/01/2021 09:54

Starmer has far less access to major platforms than people realise - even as LOTO - and then there is a major problem with how messages that are delivered are filtered through to the public.

He at least gets more of a hearing and certainly the tone of the articles are drastically different than the treatment Corbyn had

(and no before you all jump on me I dont think the papers caused us to lose the election it just didnt help)

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/01/2021 09:59

Its time to put the losses of Brexit, particularly FoM to bed. It risks falling into the out of touch, elitist narrative of the Brexit campaign. The public generally have greater concerns at present.

The pandemic is rumbling on and when it eventually ends the economic fallout, job losses is going to be frightening. In a different time it would have been a opportunity for unions and the Labour party to strengten their resolve and fight back against the inevitability of more austerity and public service cuts. Have Starmer's Labour the foresight to see this?

DGRossetti · 11/01/2021 10:07

the emphasis needs to be on how Johnson is failing the people who elected him.

Not really sure why when those people are probably more likely to beat each other to death in a rush to vote tory than actually pay any attention.

Still too many around willing to doff their cap at their betters and that attitude just doesnt seem to want to fuck off in this country.

You see I wasn't bought up that way, because my DF didn't come from this country and so hadn't had it hammered into him. Enough must have rubbed off on me to have the odd "we don't think that here" at school.

DGRossetti · 11/01/2021 10:13

The pandemic is rumbling on and when it eventually ends the economic fallout, job losses is going to be frightening.

Not to say having to prepare for the next pandemic. Which is pretty much guaranteed now. Forget a 3rd wave. Statistically a virus is still a good bet (for those of you that gamble). However, theres no reason why it can't be a bacterium of some kind.

Or - just to really hammer it home about food standards, could we see a rogue prion getting out of control ? I don't have a high confidence we (as in humans) really paid that much attention last time around.

That is assuming the pandemic hits humans directly. Something which caused all our crops to fail simultaneously might actually prove far more damaging in the long run. Mass starvation exacerbated as the rich steal from the poor.

If there aren't people being paid to war game this stuff in government, then someone has dropped the ball.

redcandlelight · 11/01/2021 10:27

@DGRossetti

The pandemic is rumbling on and when it eventually ends the economic fallout, job losses is going to be frightening.

Not to say having to prepare for the next pandemic. Which is pretty much guaranteed now. Forget a 3rd wave. Statistically a virus is still a good bet (for those of you that gamble). However, theres no reason why it can't be a bacterium of some kind.

Or - just to really hammer it home about food standards, could we see a rogue prion getting out of control ? I don't have a high confidence we (as in humans) really paid that much attention last time around.

That is assuming the pandemic hits humans directly. Something which caused all our crops to fail simultaneously might actually prove far more damaging in the long run. Mass starvation exacerbated as the rich steal from the poor.

If there aren't people being paid to war game this stuff in government, then someone has dropped the ball.

in that vein I can recommend

John Christopher: The Death of Grass
it's frightening stuff, about a pathogen that kills grass and therefore a high proportion of food is not available anymore.

DGRossetti · 11/01/2021 10:35

pathogen that kills grass

Most cereal crops are descended from grass, as I recall ?

I'll put that into the stack, thanks Smile

The UK might just get to be a world beater there, if eliminating bees turns out not to be beneficial to crops.

Personally I'd rather die from a disease than starvation. But I suspect that's probably just because of a poor imagination, and not anything empirical.

The other way we could remove ourselves from the planet would be to fuck the oceans up with some sort of cascade of elimination of biodiversity triggered by the tiniest trace of some odd chemical.

And if none of that happens, we can just wait for one of Earths many volcanoes to blow it's top and drive us into a cycle of climate uncertainty.

In other news, water has started being traded on the futures market.

www.euronews.com/living/2020/12/08/is-trading-water-the-next-big-thing-on-wall-street

which I suspect will explain an independent Scotlands economic policy for the first 50 years.

redcandlelight · 11/01/2021 10:39

Most cereal crops are descended from grass, as I recall ?

yep. rice, wheat, barley, oat, corn, spelt etc. all are essentially grass.

books starts similar to covid - at first it's 'far far' away, only affecting rice in asia...

Peregrina · 11/01/2021 10:43

Another one falling over himself to distance himself from Trump:

Westministenders: Where's my milk and cheese?
DGRossetti · 11/01/2021 10:45

@Peregrina

Another one falling over himself to distance himself from Trump:
Ah, Daniel "We'll not leave the CU" Hannon.

Hardly mother fucking shipton is he ? Just another hypocritical Tory wanker.

Peregrina · 11/01/2021 10:47

rice, wheat, barley, oat, corn, spelt etc. all are essentially grass.

Add to this a potato blight and we would be well and truly f*cked.

ListeningQuietly · 11/01/2021 10:50

I just wish Starmer would make the agenda
why are the Tories looking after their mates not the needy
not on any particular topic (Brexit, COVID, etc)
just in general
to highlight day in day out that
Tory rich folk look after Tory rich folk and nobody else

because that way every other topic would start from which of your mates got rich from ....

DGRossetti · 11/01/2021 10:53

Another group of people who will hear "go fuck yourself" from Govey-boy.

www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/north-east/2801383/its-like-a-motorway-crash-urgent-meeting-sought-to-resolve-brexit-mess-which-has-left-fishing-industry-suffering-huge-losses/

North-east fishing leaders are demanding urgent talks with the UK Government after likening the shambles created by Brexit to a “motorway crash”.

...

It's clear now the Johnson plan is simply to excise Brexit as a "thing" in public discourse (pretty easy when the MSM is your plaything) and simply blame everything from here on "the Covid". Safe in the knowledge that most of the public will accept that, and it's happy days for Boris again. He really has pulled it off. He can even point to the US and say "no matter how bad I may be ...."

borntobequiet · 11/01/2021 10:53

You know, if we came up with a solution, we'd make our fortunes ...

Macron’s genius was partly to come up with a brilliant name for his new party. En Marche struck exactly the right note with the French psyche.

In this country, forget Renew, forget Reform, forget anything worthy. Enrich would sweep the board.

OchonAgusOchonO · 11/01/2021 10:57

@Peregrina

And on other threads we see that some people think that Johnson is doing his best, no one could have dealt with a pandemic etc..
But Johnson is probably doing his best. It's just that his best is pretty crap.

The bumbling buffoon persona he portrays means that people don't expect much from him so he gets away with it. Why they would want a bumbling buffoon as PM is beyond me but that is a different question.

borntobequiet · 11/01/2021 11:01

North-east fishing leaders are demanding urgent talks with the UK Government after likening the shambles created by Brexit to a “motorway crash”.

And I see Westminster is trying to blame the Scottish government.

RedToothBrush · 11/01/2021 11:02

@thecatfromjapan

And, yes, FrankieStein*, I agree with you.

There is a real problem with how messages reach the public. Starmer has far less access to major platforms than people realise - even as LOTO - and then there is a major problem with how messages that are delivered are filtered through to the public.

Many people will only have an idea of what Starmer actually said by way of social media accounts, which have been both abbreviated and filtered by agenda.

I really don't know what you do about that.

Sarah Ditum has an excellent article about why the death of local newspapers was so devastating for our politics: a really material/first-person perspective on this modern dilemma, that offered a really grounded way at looking at the problem.

And I know RedToothBrush has also offered analysis of this.

What the solutions are, though, I just don't know.

Thats not really cutting it for me tbh.

Its not a problem that local leaders in Manchester or Liverpool are having. They are getting plenty of coverage in the local press. Given our local press are 'rent a quote from a councillor or MP' when it comes to the controversial opening of an envelope, they don't see to be having too much trouble getting their voices out there. There are opportunities to be created there and opportunities that were missed.

Indeed i do think there is something of an internal turf war on this front within Labour.

Burnham and Starmer don't want to be associated with each other. For Burnham, Starmer looks like a posh southerner. For Starmer he doesn't want to get caught up with Burnham's outspokeness.

Its not just for Manchester either though. Starmer has an issue generally with the North. He's not cutting through and I do think there's a perception of him as an outsider. Ironically Johnson doesn't suffer from this (think about the way Trump appeals) though other Tory MPs definitely have a problem with this.

The government were accused for months for not taking the problems in the north seriously. It was a golden opportunity for Starmer to take the lead in 'uniting the country'. He was notable in this absence and seemed happy for others to take the lead. Problem is he is the Leader of the Party. Starmer has got to stop be being a distant figure in a suit from London. Yes avoiding unnecessary travel has been a barrier but not one which cannot be overcome.

I do think the Tory party have definitely noticed this issue too.

It does come back to the fracture in Labour which was highlighted by Brexit - but not caused by it. Its about how Labour isn't doing as well with Northern working class communities as it should be. It is part of this flip where the Tories are resonating with blue collar workers.

Theres also an issue with post covid economics. Those swing voters in many marginals are the middle class who fear they will be stiffed with new taxes most. These are the voters who previously voted for austerity remember. They probably fancy their chances more with the Tories because what is Starmer offering them? This is the 40 - 55 ish age group. He has just ditched a pro-European approach which might have resonanted with them.

We've got a huge target about tax evasion and cronyism and how that needs much more attention. Thats a big arc that needs to be rammed home (to offset this ingrained idea that the public sector wastes money) over time. I'm not entirely convinced Starmer has got a grip on this. There is some financial stuff in there for the offering.

Theres other things going on too.

It does not feel like Labour has even started to get its head around why Brexit happened. Remember Brexit was a symptom of the problem not the cause.

And yes this 'no one could have handled the crisis better than Johnson' thing is definitely a problem. Starmer only has strongly stated a position on things at the point where its stating the bleeding obvious that the government position is untenable. Hes not taken the lead and been more proactive, earlier on, because hes more concerned about avoiding controversy.

I think thats Starmers problem overall tbh. A desperate desire to avoid all controversy. The playing it safe thing means he looks like he doesn't really believe in things or have an opinion of his own. He isn't 'fighting' for anything. He's looking more optimistic to put the boot into Johnson when he's fucked up rather than having a distinct covid policy of his own. That can come across as using victims as a political football rather than defending them from the front. I found it strange how much clear water there was between Starmer and the Teaching Unions because he knows that closing schools is deeply unpopular with a lot of parents - that really removed from Labour ideals. Ive also heard precious little about how to best protect people who are in factories, delivery centres and other such working environments. If the Labour Party isn't about fighting for safe and good working conditions what does it stand for? More has been said about the arts closing (a subject which tends to reflect living in London rather than say Hartlepool)

It comes back to the fact you end up back at identity politics which right now are far from the top of peoples priorities. Its difficult to get past that and what Labour are focused on.

Is Starmer really finding a new direction for the party or floundering somewhat even when he has a seemingly perfect political storm in his favour?

OP posts:
OchonAgusOchonO · 11/01/2021 11:09

Not to say having to prepare for the next pandemic. Which is pretty much guaranteed now. Forget a 3rd wave. Statistically a virus is still a good bet (for those of you that gamble). However, theres no reason why it can't be a bacterium of some kind.

Antibiotic resistant bacteria are likely to be the next big issue we face. Estimates are that they will kill more than cancer by 2050. amr-review.org/sites/default/files/160525_Final%20paper_with%20cover.pdf

If we don't have effective antibiotics, the repercussions are huge. Elective surgery will become a thing of the past due to the risk of infection. Cancer treatment will take a major hit (most cancer treatments suppress the body’s ability to respond to infections, so antibiotics, antifungals and antivirals are routinely used), transplants won't be possible.

SabrinaThwaite · 11/01/2021 11:21

In other news, water has started being traded on the futures market

Annunziata Rees-Mogg highlighted the idea that water could be a potential money maker in 2007:

How to profit from the world's water crisis

moneyweek.com/757/how-to-profit-from-the-worlds-water-crisis

DGRossetti · 11/01/2021 11:22

[quote SabrinaThwaite]In other news, water has started being traded on the futures market

Annunziata Rees-Mogg highlighted the idea that water could be a potential money maker in 2007:

How to profit from the world's water crisis

moneyweek.com/757/how-to-profit-from-the-worlds-water-crisis[/quote]
Wait till air gets traded.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 11/01/2021 11:24

Breathable air is a luxury not a right, how dare those immigrants and benefit scroungers breathe the air your taxes paid to clean up

borntobequiet · 11/01/2021 11:30

I found it strange how much clear water there was between Starmer and the Teaching Unions because he knows that closing schools is deeply unpopular with a lot of parents

It’s interesting that the Labour Party is still managing to forget about women (see endless FWR discussions) and has pissed off teachers with its schools stance. I’m actually amazed that they didn’t realise that a properly planned “open schools safely” policy, with provision for sufficient investment in technology and proper training, testing in schools brought in from September, a plan for dealing with exams etc etc would have put clear blue water between them and the Conservatives, wouldn’t have cost a penny because purely hypothetical, and could have been easily articulated and defended in the press - and justified with hindsight from the current perspective, which situation anyone with the slightest foresight and imagination could have foretold. In fact I think that’s where the problem lies. No foresight, no imagination, and an inability to formulate and articulate uncomfortable truths partly through fear of rocking the boat.

DGRossetti · 11/01/2021 11:35

@JustAnotherPoster00

Breathable air is a luxury not a right, how dare those immigrants and benefit scroungers breathe the air your taxes paid to clean up
It's a shame (and mildly surprising) that Ben Eltons first stage play "Gasping" hasn't been made into a film or TV adaptation.

I was lucky enough to see it with Hugh Laurie (who is a fine stage actor) in the 90s, and Bernard Hill

www.thisistheatre.com/londonshows/gasping.html

Swipe left for the next trending thread