Westministenders: Where's my milk and cheese?

[RedToothBrush]

The 'smooth' exit from transition now leads to a million and one little things that you can't get hold of or took completely for granted.

Why is sainsbury in NI selling spa milk? Why can't you get hold of your favourite food stuff?

Its a slow strangulation of the country.

In which you get to learn all about the merits of the EU and what a donkey Johnson really is.

it’s a strong an anti-Brexit message to all the Lexiters who hung with Labour that they will need at the next election
The Lexiters can just sod off
the true believer ones are VERY few in number
Most of the low information Brexiters are NOT Left
The Red Wall was a lie

If Labour do not hang on to thinking city dwellers they are doomed

Thatcher had that around her, Blair did. Starmer, and indeed whoever might have been in his place, is a bit isolated.

I blame Starmer on the centrists (In the same way I blame Brexit on UKIPers and this current lot of Tories wanting to return to some imagined 1940's/50's) in wanting a return to some imaginary halcyon days of the 90's under Blair forgetting that his abandonment of the North and of Scotland has caused us to get to here IMO

Well I blame the disaster of the election on the hard leftists who couldn’t see that Corbyn was a twit, and that this country is too right wing for Labour to get into power without embracing the middle ground.

Tory media, compliant speaker.

Starmer and the shadow cabinet have been 'asking questions' - they just get ignored - if you know of any way of getting Boris et al to admit any incompetence please share.

Boris and his media grasp at anything that hints of labour obstructing covid actions - its a fine balancing act that Starmer is handling well.

The left/centre insist on shooting themselves/arguing with themselves and end up with something worse. Blair argued both for getting even a less effective vaccine out sooner and focussing on initial doses but because it comes from what the left keep calling a 'war criminal' its not acceptable.

Starmer has consistently pre-empted the actions that Boris eventually takes - give the guy credit and keep the focus on the incompetents.

If Labour do not hang on to thinking city dwellers they are doomed

Who else are they going to vote for?

It might backfire at the local elections - but then again the tories are going to be under pressure too, from Starmer on the sane wing and Farage on the loony wing.

Won't make the slightest difference by the time the next election comes round.

I have wondered whether Starmer is facing a similar problem to Corbyn in regards to the media. It is a major problem to grapple with. For all its ferocity in chasing celebrities and declaring enemies of the people, media tells us nothing. The BBC had its teeth pulled years ago: on the recent Trump threads it was noted that the BBC coverage was distant and no one else is interested in spending money to share information. That Ocado story did not mention Brexit as a cause of restricted supply, whether it was or not. It’s all COVID. The increasing economic privations of the last few years are not mentioned, all job losses and economic issues are down to COVID and no one has ever lost their livelihood before now. I have also just seen a story about people with issues relating to cladding being forbidden from talking to the media. If you talk to local Greens, councillors and the like, they’ll tell you the central leadership is mad and nothing to do with them. Let’s face it the U.K. is finished and it isn’t because of Scotland or Northern Ireland: it’s the vacancy and disconnect at the heart - and minds - of England, economic and moral. If there was a time to fix it i fear it has passed. Certainly no one is interested in women over 40, now as ever: we are the other sex, and nothing more than the reserve labour force, which needs to get back in its box. Every industrial/ economic change reduces our status.

@TatianaBis

Well I blame the disaster of the election on the hard leftists who couldn’t see that Corbyn was a twit, and that this country is too right wing for Labour to get into power without embracing the middle ground.

I agree Tatiana nothing more idiotic than wanting an end to austerity, an end to UC and who the fuck needs a home these days, fucking loony leftist what where they thinking

Didnt the hard leftists vote for Corbyn? Wasnt it the centrists who couldnt bring themselves to vote for Corbyn so they got Johnson instead, good fucking deal

It wasn't so much the policies as the man. He was no leader and had too much easy target baggage.

I’m centre-left and I voted Labour despite Corbyn.

If you want to end austerity you need to not be following a Brexit policy that will stymie trade and economic growth (leaving the SM). We can all sit down and write a list of Christmas wishes, but we can’t make them come true without a coherent economic policy. Corbyn ain’t Santa.

Businesses that choose to hire Trump administration alumni will, the editor said, be held to account.

"Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie," the magazine's editor Randall Lane wrote. "We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet," Lane added.

www.businessinsider.com/dont-hire-former-trump-officials-forbes-editor-warns-businesses-2021-1?r=US&IR=T

just saw that on reddit might interest a few in here

We can all sit down and write a list of Christmas wishes, but we can’t make them come true without a coherent economic policy. Corbyn ain’t Santa.

Didnt want a wishlist just wanted to be treated as a human by the state and not a burden on society that needs to be punished until my disability magically heals itself

I just love the way they are all distancing themselves from Trump when up to two months ago they couldn't get enough of him.

Why are we still fighting over Corbyn? He is yesterday's bogieman and no longer in the picture. Johnson has been in power over a year. Comment on him, on Sturgeon, on Drakeford and Maskey. Once Stamner has some policies in place, I will do the same for him (from and English perspective).

Dunno, JustAnotherPoster seems hung up on his election promises, despite the fact he’s left the building.

I don’t think there’s much point in whining about Starmer either. He is who he is, that’s what we have to work with, and wait a few years while the U.K. sinks slowly in the mud.

Starmer's smart. There's not much he can do while facing an 80 seat majority.

Policy is almost redundant at this point.

So he's aiming to win back lost voters.

And as for Brexit: it's about not providing cover for the government as the wheels fall off, and allowing the electorate space to peel away from support, without making them feel foolish, or providing flames for a culture war.

And, as you all know on these threads, it's going to be ongoing negotiations from here on in - with the next big tussle timed for 5 years time.

Starmer's made some excellent appointments at the 'Department for pointing out why Brexit is shit': really responsible, serious, analytical people to go up against Gove.

The key thing is that, without winning, you get to do nothing. Not re-negotiating Brexit, not funding public services.

What we're living through - with the Covid response, with Brexit - is the consequence of losing to an appalling bunch of populist opportunists and ideologues. It's a terrible, terrible lesson and we can't let it happen again.

(And I'm a centrist - and I couldn't have worked harder to try and avoid the 2019 result. It's just delusional to think this was the work of Centrist saboteurs. That's easily as bonkers as Stalin's'Doctors' Plot.' And people coming out with that on social media makes the Left sound deranged. ☹️)

So he's aiming to win back lost voters.

At the risk of alienating those who did stay with Labour. What he needs to be doing is identifying those centrist voters who plumped for the Tories last time, but find the behaviour of Johnson and cronies abhorrent. This must be in practice what Blair did - even though to many of us he was Tory Lite. Even though Blair did some decent things until the Iraq war.

RedToothBrush How likely do you think it is that there is any chance of defeating the Conservatives without some kind of progressive alliance?

(That question should really be open to everyone. Apologies. )

Starmer certainly doesn't seem to be doing anything to "win back" Scotland in fact, he seems to be actively pissing Scots off

But maybe he understands the equation that Scotland doesn't actually make a difference to who is in power at WM, so therefore what Scotland thinks doesn't really matter He may as well pander to the Unionists in England

@thecatfromjapan

Starmer's smart. There's not much he can do while facing an 80 seat majority.

Policy is almost redundant at this point.

So he's aiming to win back lost voters.

And as for Brexit: it's about not providing cover for the government as the wheels fall off, and allowing the electorate space to peel away from support, without making them feel foolish, or providing flames for a culture war.

And, as you all know on these threads, it's going to be ongoing negotiations from here on in - with the next big tussle timed for 5 years time.

Starmer's made some excellent appointments at the 'Department for pointing out why Brexit is shit': really responsible, serious, analytical people to go up against Gove.

The key thing is that, without winning, you get to do nothing. Not re-negotiating Brexit, not funding public services.

What we're living through - with the Covid response, with Brexit - is the consequence of losing to an appalling bunch of populist opportunists and ideologues. It's a terrible, terrible lesson and we can't let it happen again.

(And I'm a centrist - and I couldn't have worked harder to try and avoid the 2019 result. It's just delusional to think this was the work of Centrist saboteurs. That's easily as bonkers as Stalin's'Doctors' Plot.' And people coming out with that on social media makes the Left sound deranged. ☹️)

Work at winning back voters by just agreeing with the party fucking things up, rather coming up with a new vision an alternative strategy for the future to inspire?

Just going along with the bollocks rather than asking the right, difficult and awkward questions that cut to the chase?

The number of seats anyone has is utterly irrelevant.

And you dont win shit back for standing for precisely fuck all.

Its also taking for granted that people will support you because theres 'no alternative' if you hate the Tories.

Starmer is like a jellyfish stranded on the beach waiting for the tide to come in and hoping he doesn't get eaten by birds in the interim.

Utter nonsense.

Starmer is floundering. He's being over cautious and paying far too much attention to polling rather than being spontaneously, genuine, engaging and connecting with people.

This is the age of the celebrity politician. And whilst i dont condone nor am keen on that, at least having some life in your body or the slightest hint of a pluse and having some genuine passion might do wonders for the party.

Sorry RTB - I usually very much agree with you but I can't understand this:
" rather than asking the right, difficult and awkward questions that cut to the chase?"

Can you give an example of a single question that you'd like him to be asking and in what forum?

I've watched many of Starmer's PMQ's and it's obvious it doesn't matter what he asks there - the question is never answered and Hoyle never intervenes on substance. In any case only the Guardian will report in it's political blogs how pathetic Boris' answers were and that's only to a limited audience.
Erskine May says "An answer should be confined to the points contained in the question, with such explanation only as renders the answer intelligible, though a certain latitude is permitted to Ministers of the Crown" and "the Speaker has stressed the importance of substantive answers being given in a timely manner" - Boris has never provided what could be called a 'substantive' answer to an opposition question.

IMHO the non-right spend far too much energy attacking their leaders instead of attacking the right or the way they control the dialogue.

You aren't asking the tory party to respond! You are asking the public to think critically and consider the alternative.

You are playing to the audience rather the person you are talking to.

We'll have to disagree on this one.

And I do hope I'm right!

And to be fair, it seems to be working as an approach. Starmer's ratings are good. And - even though there was a point where it seemed the only thing the electorate liked about Labour was Starmer - Labour's dragging its way out of the trough.

As far as Brexit is conceened, I think it's going to be a process (a slow process,) of negotiating closer links with the EU.

That's only going to happen by taking power away from the right-wing populists.

And, as I said, I think the team Starmer's put together to examine Brexit clearly demonstrate the direction Starmer will travel in.