So, how long will it be before we join again?

[BlackForestCake]

Will you be supporting the campaign to join the EU?

It will be good for business to do away with a lot of pointless red tape at customs, and our people will benefit from being able to travel, study and work in 28 countries.

^I'd be fuming if I was in my teens and had now been robbed of the chance to live, love, learn and work in various European cities.

I suspect over the course of the next decade the generational war is going to get pretty nasty.^

^This.^

Brexit. Black Lives Matter. Climate Change. Me Too. The Covid Debt/Economic depression.

The older generation in the UK has severely screwed over the younger.

I'm going with a generation - so 25 years for rejoining.

But drifting closer could start fairly soon as we negotiate x y z arrangements. First thing to see is what we do with financial services.

Brexit was a strategic error, errors usually get corrected.

Why would you gets be furious with grandparents who may have voted differently to them? The point of a democracy is that every eligible person has one vote. No one has the right to bully others to vote the way they want or be furious with them. I own a second home in France and I know it will definitely affect my ability to spend more than 90 days put of 180 days living there which I was hoping to do in full retirement. I am not furious with others who are entitled to vote how they wish though. Too many young people are too entitled and expect everyone to agree with them. They need to learn about democracy and what that means. There will be advantages as well as disadvantages to Brexit. We just have to wait 10 years or so to see how things work out. There is to be another scheme for students who want to study abroad but it will be worldwide rather than just EU wide. We have left with a deal and that was the most important thing. I think there may be a breakdown of the UK as NI is upset it has been treated differently to rest of UK and Scotland is never happy and like the teens believes everyone should do what they want all of the time. I hope there is another Scottish referendum and if Scotland wants to go it should be allowed to. Last time it voted to stay but things are so different now we are out of EU they should get another referendum as I think that was terms of the first vote that they got another referendum if material things changed. I don't think Scotland could rejoin EU unless it had massive austerity over many years as their GDP is running at over 5 percent and EU demands it must be less than 3 percent. They would also have to adopt the Euro. There would have to be a land border with England to preserve Single Market. Scotland currently exports a lot of things to rest of UK.

What, spend 10 mins filling out an online form and paying $15 before flying and then a short wait at the other end as you pass through immigration?

Eh? Getting a work visa for the US is nothing that like that simple at all. Getting a work visa in many countries altogether is not simple. A friend of mine has lived has lived and worked abroad in one country (not the EU) for over five years. This year, they were denied a visa, and so they have lost their job and had to return jobless to the U.K.

I think some people are amazingly ignorant of the processes involved with visas and customs. They have been to the States for a fortnight and think it is the same for a more substantial visa.

I never know whether the ignorance is wilfull or genuine lack of knowledge.

This guy has put down into a thread the path to rejoining:

twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1344592194930438144

A lot will hinge on the 2024 general election as the treaty is currently set up to be reviewed every 5 years with the first review in 2026.

They have made it fairly easy for us to rejoin but as he has said in his thread we wouldn't rejoin in that parliament as it is just too soon. Rejoining the single market and customs union could be likely though and then in the years after I think it is fairly likely.

Eh? Getting a work visa for the US is nothing that like that simple at all.

Good job I was not referring to a work visa, just a tourist visa.

I believe Britain would be cheeky enough to ask but I would imagine it would be a big 'non' from the EU

I think we'll rejoin CU and SM within 5 years and then it's only a matter of time before we become full members again.

In the meantime this country is going to be horrible. Whatever nationalist wank puppet replaces Johnson will try to make the EU look like villains to distract from their own mess.

@sally067

This guy has put down into a thread the path to rejoining:

twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1344592194930438144

A lot will hinge on the 2024 general election as the treaty is currently set up to be reviewed every 5 years with the first review in 2026.

They have made it fairly easy for us to rejoin but as he has said in his thread we wouldn't rejoin in that parliament as it is just too soon. Rejoining the single market and customs union could be likely though and then in the years after I think it is fairly likely.

I read the Nick Tolhurst thread yesterday Sally although I took a different view on Remain/Leave than he did I thought his thread was a very interesting take on the potential future. Sure, it's somewhat oversimplified (that's just the necessary brevity of twitter, not his fault) but an interesting perspective.

Good job I was not referring to a work visa, just a tourist visa.

Who cares about tourist visas? They don’t greatly matter in the scheme of things, though inconvenient. It’s work visas that matter, that ability to live and work in a foreign country. The fact that people think about abroad just being about holidays says it all.

Why would you gets be furious with grandparents who may have voted differently to them?

Because it was a once in a generation vote that is largely irreversible, hence this thread. The older generation will not have to suffer the effects, as many of them won’t be around.

The younger generations have had both their rights taken from them, and will also have to live with the mess for perhaps the rest of their lives, and as the voting demographics show, they overwhelmingly don’t want this.

This wasn’t like another GE. The damage is permanent and cannot be undone 4 years down the line.

Too many young people are too entitled and expect everyone to agree with them.

That's not my experience. I think they are more informed than any previous generation.

Your average person in their teens and twenties isn't particularly concerned with patriotism and doesn't see Europe or the world in the same way as many older people do. They realise their nationality is basically down to luck and a fluke of birth. They are much more concerned with rights such a freedom of movement and equality than notions of sovereignty.

Well, one set of grandparents proudly wrote on Facebook that they had considered carefully what was best for their grandchildren and that they had voted Leave. Actually, the grandchildren didn't come into it at all, they didn't ask them and if they had, all 5 would have said to vote to Remain.

The real reason was because they thought there were too many forrins (I know this for a fact) and they have exclusively read the Express and the Mail for the past ten years. That was the particularly galling part. So now, they have to live the most critical parts of their lives in shitty Brexit Britain. Brilliant. That's why they are pissed off with them.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

I suppose my argument was implicit rather than explicit. I referred to the result to back up my pessimism about the potential for rejoining. The idea that once the older generation die out the Uk (if it still exists) will be able to rejoin is too simplistic. The majority of those who were over 45 at the time voted to leave. So dying out is going to take a long, long time. Rejoining would need to be underpinned by a shift in attitudes held by a large proportion of the electorate. Attitudes can change, maybe I am too pessimistic. Attitudes on immigration for example, what is it to be British/Scots/Welsh/Irish/English and abandonment of our continuing backward looking national story.

The only light at the end of my tunnel is that the promises made by the Tories are going to take a long time to fulfill if ever. I worked in economic development during the 1980s/1990s encouraging enterprises, inward investment into the regions that had been devastated by deindustrialisation in the 1980s. Financial incentives were given, the creation of Urban Development Corporations and Enterprize Zones to bypass planning etc. Once the subsidies dried up many companies moved out. I really wish the people of working age who supported Brexit would have a good read at Britannia Unchained. My own view is that the benefits of Brexit will not be felt by the many. Who knows maybe attitudes will change before we go too far down the Brexit route envisaged by the ERG, Patel, Raab, Kwarteng et al. I really hope I am wrong, I don't want this future for our young people.

*shitty Brexit plague infested Britain, with an incredibly incompetent Leave Government who only know how to campaign with nationalistic slogans.

I'd be fuming if I was in my teens and had now been robbed of the chance to live, love, learn and work in various European cities.

Er, you do know that your grandchildren can still live, love, learn and work in various European cities, yes?! Just as they can live, love, learn and work in pretty much every city around the world?

caringcarer "Too many young people are too entitled and expect everyone to agree with them. They need to learn about democracy and what that means."

You'd have to define 'democracy' when it looks like it means a non-binding, advisory referendum with no minimum participatory level, no 'overwhelming majority' requirement, along with the disenfranchisement of a huge number of EU based Brits, which was then 'won' by 36% of the population is cited as being 'democracy'.

Because, you know what? Had there been a second, confirmatory referendum, with the above provisos (you know, like the referendums proper, grown up democracies run); and the result had been Leave, I would have accepted it.

But that isn't what happened.

Six months prior to that fateful June, 6% of respondents cited 'the EU' as being their primary concern.

We are never joining again. Never.

Er, you do know that your grandchildren can still live, love, learn and work in various European cities, yes?! Just as they can live, love, learn and work in pretty much every city around the world?

How do you work that out? That is precisely what they cannot now do by right. One of my DC lives and works in an EU country. She is the only British person in the company she works for. She has already been contacted in the last couple of weeks to be warned they may not be able to get her a work visa.

@Tippexy

I'd be fuming if I was in my teens and had now been robbed of the chance to live, love, learn and work in various European cities.

Er, you do know that your grandchildren can still live, love, learn and work in various European cities, yes?! Just as they can live, love, learn and work in pretty much every city around the world?

For absolutely no tangible gain, we have made that a) considerably harder for them, b) more expensive for them, c) excluded the young of the poor.

They, understandably, see no upsides to all this, as four years of asking got them the reply 'Sovrintee'.

@Tippexy , I lived worked and loved in other countries before the EU (obviously not before the EEC). I was unique in my northern and not particularly well off coastal town cohort for doing it. Because of my dad's job and mum's immigrant background travelling was the norm for me and my family. It required a bit of saving, a bit of battle with bureaucracy and a bit of determination.
Any kid these days who doesn't have that background (like kids I grew up with) won't do it as readily. If at all. More Brexit winning.

@daisypond

Good job I was not referring to a work visa, just a tourist visa.

Who cares about tourist visas? They don’t greatly matter in the scheme of things, though inconvenient. It’s work visas that matter, that ability to live and work in a foreign country. The fact that people think about abroad just being about holidays says it all.

dillon didnt start the holiday visa thing

She was just replying to someone who was saying that going on holiday woukd be more difficult

She has already been contacted in the last couple of weeks to be warned they may not be able to get her a work visa.

She's protected by the withdrawal agreement and doesn't need a visa. But future arrivals will need one, and their employers may need to show that there is no EEA candidate for the job.

I think it's worth rejoining just to see the look on Nigel Farage's racist face.