What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

[Elephant4]

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

My memories of that time revolve around people talking about house prices and the difficulty of getting a mortgage, with stupidly high interest rates. And also going to a Labour party hustings at the 1992 when Michael Foot came to talk and went on and on about the 1945 win. I turned to a friend that I'd met up with (who was a Labour voter) and said that at the next election, one of my children would be able to vote, and they would be no more interested in how wonderful Labour was in 1945 than I would have been at that age if someone had sold the virtues of political parties in 1928. As it happened, Blair turned up, and got a stonking great victory - which was wholly unexpected in 1992.

Yes Tony Blair... what a “stonking great” pillock.*

*war criminal, narcissist, smug, BTLer, idiot.

Blair's big mistake was backing the Iraq war, although I believe that plenty of Tories voted for it too. Had he not done, he would have been remembered as one of the architects of the Good Friday Agreement which was a huge achievement.

@TerryHearn

Sore losers central here.

All we need, someone else blaming the victim.

@Hazelnutlatteplease

It was significant

Why was it significant? What realistically could UK do if the European Parliament decided further integration was the way to go? Perhaps we could say we no longer wanted to be a part of it.... have a vote... hang on a sec...

We signed up for that in 1973
No. They believed they voted for a trading block. They did not vote for ever increasing integration. Why many of that generation felt so strongly about the referendum. Essentially they felt misled and that they had to right a wrong they created.

you can't predict 50 years ahead but declare that by then we will see benefits.

It's called hope.

It was essentially creating a 2 speed EU - an inner ring of more integrated countries and an outer ring of less integrated ones,

And yes, it was made clear on joining in 1973 (see attached from Heath) and then again during the 1975 referendum that the EEC was more than a trading bloc - it was clearly stated in the Government leaflet sent to households at the time. People have conveniently forgotten this though.

www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/1975ReferendumGov.pdf

And I recall that there was a much bigger margin for the Yes vote. Not that it would have mattered as much, because it was retaining the status quo.

@Peregrina

Blair's big mistake was backing the Iraq war, although I believe that plenty of Tories voted for it too. Had he not done, he would have been remembered as one of the architects of the Good Friday Agreement which was a huge achievement.

Tony Blair should have been up at The Hague. What he did was criminal.

Terry I preferred your car analogy a few pages back to your divorce analogy. All those scientists, researchers, business leaders, union leaders, moderate politicians, teachers, university-educated parents, university students, etc etc all squeezed into the back seat with their dummies, while the likes of you, Terry, are in the driving seat.

Better buckle up. Where are we heading I wonder.

@Figmentofmyimagination

I think we’d be better off with Big William driving. At least someone had a plan when the bus was dangling over the cliff edge.

In fact we weren’t previously driving our own car. We were in our own car but the driver wouldn’t listen to where we wanted to go. Instead of driving the 5 minute journey to get us home quickly he wanted to drive a full loop around the M25 first whilst he dropped everyone else off first. He also gets a bigger fare that way. We’ve sacked the driver and can now go where we want to without going through the argument and the bureaucracy. It’s cheaper too (even though the old driver has tried to puncture all 4 tyres and to siphon the petrol).

I can't find anywhere in that leaflet that mandates the authority of a European Bank for example.

It does however fudge the question of European authority. Most of the talk bigging up the trading block.

With the benefit of 50 years hindsight, I can understand why people might not feel the outcome match the hoped for expectation.

If I need to have patience to see Brexit benefits then it's snake-oil - bugger 50 years - even if 'benefits' become clear in 5 years how will we know it's 'because' of Brexit or 'despite' Brexit? There are no tangible benefits that will be visible next year - otherwise we'd have heard about them.

Those asking for local supply chains are displaying their ignorance. We don't have the suppliers and they can't be stood up in time to prevent business failures,

Longer supply chains and the JIT approach developed because it's actually faster, better and cheaper.

If we constrain our supply chain to be local then our costs will be higher and we will be uncompetitive wrt countries without that constraint. Any hope of 'global' competitiveness is not compatible with those constraints.

Border 'friction' means that stocks will be needed - stocks represent cost especially against business flexibility. This is much more than warehousing costs - if you have to maintain two weeks stock in order to keep your business running in the event of delivery delays then that's two weeks of 'old' product you have to shift when you change the product.

I'm not remoaning just stating categorically that there are no tangible benefits to Brexit.

But since the UK had the Euro opt out, we weren’t a part of the ECB?

A uk student can pop home easily when studying in europe,^
If anything (slightly controversial) we need our language students studying Chinese or Indian. Both of which are both widely spoken either as a first or second language. The simple fact is English (or actually American) is still the most widely spoken language. Purely in worldwide communication terms, i wonder if European languages are becoming less valuable

China? the country that jails anyone reporting on CV-19 in Wuhan, who has concentration camps with millions of people in them? no thankyou.
You need to do a little more research in what "Indian" is.

Rather sad you see no value in other cultures, a student in our village studying journalism, took an Erasmus program in Spain, now v successful, paying 40% tax for the services we all need, parents working class.

Higher prices for us

Greater incentive therefore to manufacture British. Maybe. We'll see

German importers of goods made in Japan and Taiwan can ship to the UK for far less then UK suppliers are willing to sell for, so less competition now, prices go up.

GHIC will be a EU health card but it now no longer covers EEA countries, such as Switzerland, so not the best of both worlds, we already have health deals with some commonwealth countries.

I believe the independent Tribunals set up to resolve serious disputes between EU/UK have the authority to refer to the ECJ....

I did laugh at that one, given how much some hate the idea of a transparent european court, with UK judges on it, ruling only on EU law (which over several GE's our govt's have agreed too) but are more than happy for the WTO to do similar but with no transparency & with little if any UK representation.

Rather sad you see no value in other cultures

Massive jump there. I personally learnt two different European languages plus one dead one. As a result I've studied much European culture often in the original language. In an ideal world I'd love to have pur kids learning as many languages as possible. But you are absolutely right. I do not know as much about Indian cultures as much as either Chinese or European. I actually think that's very wrong and evidence of European Bias that perhaps is less useful in the future.

China? the country that jails anyone reporting on CV-19 in Wuhan, who has concentration camps with millions of people in them?

And yes I do think there value in being able to converse with the two largest economies in the world in their own language. You don't have to agree with a country to learn more about it.

Its bizarre to say you wouldn't want to learn a language just because you don't agree with politics. In a paragraph before you accuse me of seeing no value in other cultures.....

China? the country that jails anyone reporting on CV-19 in Wuhan, who has concentration camps with millions of people in them? no thank you*.
You need to do a little more research in what "Indian" is

Well, if we are bringing up China, after the EU signed a huge deal with Vietnam (a country with one of the worst records in human rights) they are about to try and pass a deal with China.
Guy Verhofstadt has just earnt some star points from me (the star chart to date had been at 0 🤣).

www.smh.com.au/world/europe/europe-china-to-sign-trade-deal-but-human-rights-issues-could-sink-it-20201230-p56qth.html

Page 9 and my question is still not answered.

I conclude: we’ve gained nothing so far from Brexit. Completely nothing. We’ve lost plenty.

There is a hope that something might be gained in the very far away future. That’s unlikely to outweigh our losses though. Very unlikely.

Thank you everyone.

Well, if we are bringing up China, after the EU signed a huge deal with Vietnam (a country with one of the worst records in human rights) they are about to try and pass a deal with China
Guy Verhofstadt has just earnt some star points from me (the star chart to date had been at 0

Don't agree with close trade with China, it will never end well (look at Australia) & we will never change how they treat their citizens.
Vietnam is a different case, we may have some influence over them.

Vietnam is a different case, we may have some influence over them

Good plan let's use trading might to bring our civilising influence to other cultures.... that's always gone well in the past.

my question is still not answered
Actually it was. We left the EU. Whether you see that as a benefit or at least worth the loss depends on which side the Bexit fence your on.

Good plan let's use trading might to bring our civilising influence to other cultures.... that's always gone well in the past.

So who is more likely to have the most clout - a large bloc covering a significant part of a continent or a group of small islands off the coast of the said bloc?

Are you ok with them doing a deal with China Peregrina?

Thee are gains for rich people.offshores companies and accounts owners definitely gained incl. JRM, Cameron family and many Tories donors. Tories will gain in NHS privatization as well as industrues subsidies. Deregulation is highly likely so big businesses will gain too.
I find it ironic that Sir Ratcliffe was a hard brexiteer and now is preparing to start Grenadier manufacturing in Germany and France - instead of Wales.
There are gains but not for an average voter.

No, I am not. But who are they more likely to listen too? A bloc of 27 nations, or little England (UK), which hasn't even been able to defend Hong Kong from their actions?

The answer is probably - no one, they are big enough to ignore everyone, but a bigger trade deal with a large bloc would leave them with more to lose.

Ironic or just out right hypocrisy?