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Brexit

What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

999 replies

Elephant4 · 29/12/2020 18:39

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

OP posts:
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9
HeyHeyImABeLeaver · 16/01/2021 14:00

We knew what the EU was, its failings and its successes, we also had a very good idea of where it was going... in other words we based our vote on - facts!
Leaving was about vague promises/feelings, which we see now with the authorisation of banned pesticides and the betrayal of the fishing industry.

Here are some more facts:

I believe our loosening is for 1 year France is 3 years.

www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/france-eases-ban-on-bee-threatening-pesticide-to-help-sugar-sector/

Another case of do as I say not as I do:

euobserver.com/green-deal/149966

We can now hold our Government to account for our part in this.

ListeningQuietly · 16/01/2021 14:01

Those who think Brexit is great will not want to read this
but they should
chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/

ListeningQuietly · 16/01/2021 14:04

HeyHey
We can now hold our Government to account for our part in this.
HOW?
What actions would achieve that ?

HeyHeyImABeLeaver · 16/01/2021 14:16

Updated and a much more positive article below (wouldn't like to come across completely biased)

unearthed.greenpeace.org/2020/10/15/eu-banned-pesticide-exports-public-eye/

Supporting environmental groups, pressure groups and keeping it in the public arena. I will be watching to see what the U.K. do on this.

HeyHeyImABeLeaver · 16/01/2021 14:25

And if all else fails, I can always stand butt naked on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square Wink

jasjas1973 · 16/01/2021 17:38

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver

And if all else fails, I can always stand butt naked on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square Wink
That'll work! :)

We are out of the EU, what France does is irrelevant, it also hasn't passed into law yet.

We were told time and time again that we would be able to increase environment standards once free of the yolk of the 'commision, yet our first act is to allow the use of a banned pesticide, i doubt it will e for 1 year either, do you?

Interesting though that France can do this whilst IN the EU, seems that burdensome yoke is not very heavy!

Andante57 · 16/01/2021 18:09

Jasjas do you think you will be as interested in Brexit when you move to France?
I’ve asked you this before but maybe you didn’t see it.

jasjas1973 · 16/01/2021 18:21

@Andante57

Jasjas do you think you will be as interested in Brexit when you move to France? I’ve asked you this before but maybe you didn’t see it.
Yes you ve asked before and i answered, its your problem if you couldn't be asked to read the original reply.

Whats it too you anyway?

Andante57 · 16/01/2021 19:16

Oh sorry - I didn’t see your answer, I’ll have another look.
I was just curious - not sure why asking has caused such offence.

jasjas1973 · 16/01/2021 20:58

@Andante57

Oh sorry - I didn’t see your answer, I’ll have another look. I was just curious - not sure why asking has caused such offence.
I'm not offended.

But perhaps don't keep asking the same question, if you can't be bothered to check for a reply?

CutToChase · 17/01/2021 16:39

Hello all /waves
May I join your thread? I've just read all 39 pages in one sitting 😂

Background info about me: I voted Remain and then left for France once the results of the referendum came through. I'm still a Remainer at heart but I've developed a more nuanced view since I left the UK, mainly bevause my part of France overwhelmingly voted Front National, and my in laws are Frexiters 🙈 As you can imagine being exposed to that inevitably impacts on your views slightly.

My partner is also anti vaccine which I took the piss out of him about- until the study came out showing that 60% of France were of his view 👀

I've been watching the french news channels daily and it's interesting the view here. Most commentors seem to be saying that France's slow roll out of vaccines has a "cover" reason (-> they dont want to anger the anti vaxxers), and a "real" reason (-> French red tape is not an unfounded stereotype: there are forms and forms and approvals and fuck loads of paperwork that has to be done to actually get people vaccinated).

My hope is that in the aftermath, there will be a big review of the bureaucracy and red tape that goes on here. It's one thing in normal times, when you can feel frustrated and have a bit of a knowing smile and eye roll over it. It's anotherthing when its massively delayed like this. I'm frustrated o will get the vaccine so much later than friends in the UK.

It's interestingto see how this whole virus has triggered nationalist competition across the board - in the UK of course, but here too.

The other day I was watching a panel discussion where a doctor was explaining stuff about the virus and one panelist was getting very upset, asking WHY does Germany have so many more resuscitation beds, WHY does the UK do so much more genome sequencing? There was a faint bitter undercurrent at the UK developing its vaccine and rolling it out so quickly too, especially post Brexit.

I also think it was interesting how they chose to call the new strain "the English variant". Out of interest, in the UK are they using the term "South African variant"?

XingMing · 17/01/2021 17:16

We have a Kent variant, a South African variant and fears of a Brazilian/Latin American variant has triggered stricter border controls and a quarantine protocol.

notimagain · 17/01/2021 17:45

@CutToChase

I've been watching the french news channels daily and it's interesting the view here. Most commentors seem to be saying that France's slow roll out of vaccines has a "cover" reason (-> they dont want to anger the anti vaxxers), and a "real" reason (-> French red tape is not an unfounded stereotype: there are forms and forms and approvals and fuck loads of paperwork that has to be done to actually get people vaccinated).

From what I have seen even the French national channels (FR2, FR3) were carrying reports very early on of French politicians/officials being given stick over the delays and commentators pointing the finger at squarely at logistics and bureaucracy , etc, so TBH I personally haven't perceived any real evidence of the anti-vaxers being used as a cover story.

I do agree though,, the continual use of "variant Anglais / Britannique" is wearing a bit thin but TBF I've seen UK news using the "South African" virus term

FuriousWithTheNHS · 17/01/2021 18:43

I'm still a Remainer at heart but I've developed a more nuanced view since I left the UK, mainly bevause my part of France overwhelmingly voted Front National, and my in laws are Frexiters 🙈 As you can imagine being exposed to that inevitably impacts on your views slightly.

Nuanced in what way? Can you explain what you mean in more detail how your in laws politics have impacted your view please?

I have no agenda here, I am just genuinely curious to know what you mean, given that you are, as you say, a remainer at heart. Has seeing things from a Frexit perspective given you a better understanding of why so many people want to leave the EU than it did from a UK perspective?

Bearfamily1010 · 17/01/2021 22:50

The stopping of live exports of animals, which we were not free to do within the EU.

The EU generally speaking has not been very good at actually enforcing the strict animal welfare standards it has developed. There are numerous documented examples of this.

CrotchBurn · 17/01/2021 22:55

@Bearfamily1010
Well let's face it, the EU's number two supporter makes foie gras, a product so inhumane in concept its illegal to produce in the UK.

Not to mention the mink farms in Ireland and Denmark, staggeringly enough

jasjas1973 · 17/01/2021 23:02

The stopping of live exports of animals, which we were not free to do within the EU

Its a proposal... thats all, it also doesn't cover live exports for breeding or for restocking nor the very long travel periods in the UK.

The EU generally speaking has not been very good at actually enforcing the strict animal welfare standards it has developed. There are numerous documented examples of this

Its the member states that carry out EU rules not the EU.... e.g the UK banned mink farms in 2000 (thank goodness) so this idea we can't do x y or z is simply not true.

If the UK really wanted to ban live animal exports for slaughter, it would, any ECJ court case would be many years away, if at all.

Bearfamily1010 · 17/01/2021 23:11

@jasjas1973

The stopping of live exports of animals, which we were not free to do within the EU

Its a proposal... thats all, it also doesn't cover live exports for breeding or for restocking nor the very long travel periods in the UK.

The EU generally speaking has not been very good at actually enforcing the strict animal welfare standards it has developed. There are numerous documented examples of this

Its the member states that carry out EU rules not the EU.... e.g the UK banned mink farms in 2000 (thank goodness) so this idea we can't do x y or z is simply not true.

If the UK really wanted to ban live animal exports for slaughter, it would, any ECJ court case would be many years away, if at all.

Yes, it is in the proposal stage. This is how changes start :) currently consultations are happening.

The UK was not free to stop it, please educate yourself on this topic.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-26371844

Peregrina · 18/01/2021 00:15

It could then be argued that it's a pity the UK, which feels strongly about transporting live animals abroad is now no longer a member and can't lend its weight to introducing a ban.

Sunflowergirl1 · 18/01/2021 07:31

Such an interesting read from a columnist with “Bild”, Germany’s biggest circulation paper.

BY ALEXANDER VON SCHOENBURG, EDITOR-AT-LARGE AT BILD, GERMANY’S BIGGEST-SELL ING PAPER.

BRITONS may understandably be feeling more than a little frustrated with their leaders right now during this new and more vicious phase of the pandemic.

Covid infections are soaring in the UK, there are more patients hospitalised than at the peak of the first wave and, tragically, daily deaths yesterday topped the 1,000 mark.

Then there is fury over your school closures, a developing row over who should get the vaccine — young or old — and problems with supply and distribution.

Yes, you may feel things look grim, but let me tell you that many of us here in Europe are looking across the Channel with envy.

The sclerotic and sluggish EU machine has, unforgivably, botched the roll-out of the vaccines, and the consequences are likely to prove fatal to many thousands of our citizens.

The pandemic is almost a year old and EU leaders could have and should have seen the need for a swift, effective vaccine policy a mile off.

Pitiful
Instead, delays, in-fighting, national self-interest and sheer bungling bureaucracy have combined to cripple the EU’s vaccine efforts.

Now a growing fury is spreading as we watch independent countries — particularly Britain, Israel and America — ramping up their vaccine distribution with tremendous efficiency in comparison to our efforts, saving lives, protecting the vulnerable and moving towards ending this terrible crisis.

Don’t believe me? Let me take you through the numbers.

More than 1.3 million people in Britain have now received either the Pfizer/BioNTech jab or the more recently approved Oxford/AstraZeneca version.

As of yesterday, France, your closest neighbour, had vaccinated just 7,000 people. During the first week of its vaccination programme, France immunised a pitiful 516 individuals: Britain managed 130,000 in the first seven days and started doing so weeks earlier.

From his bunker in the Elysee Palace, the beleaguered President Macron admits that this paltry figure is ‘not worthy of the French people,’ adding, with Gallic understatement, ‘things aren’t going well’. You can say that again.

But France’s record is in fact just one of a shameful litany across the continent. In Holland, the first Covid-19 vaccines were administered only yesterday — almost a full month after Margaret Keenan, now 91, became the first British patient to receive the jab on the NHS.

In the Polish capital Warsaw, one hospital has attracted widespread criticism for reportedly opting to give the vaccine to celebrities and politicians before vulnerable older citizens, sparking a government investigation there.

My home country of Germany had, by Tuesday, vaccinated some 317,000 people — by far the most of the EU27.

Yet what a bitter irony it is that we who were crucial to the development and manufacturing of the Pfizer/BioNTech jab — BioNTech is a start-up based outside Frankfurt — must now watch lorry loads of supplies travelling to Britain while our own roll-out is beset by delay, uncertainty and fears about future supply.

Our health minister has warned that Germany will not be vaccinating at Britain’s rate until at least the summer, thanks to distribution problems and the EU’s ill-considered ‘cap’ on the number of doses that can be distributed to the various member states.

So why, despite frequent warnings throughout last year from both the private sector and individual health ministries, and despite the limitless resources at its disposal, have things gone so horribly wrong for the EU?

The seeds were sown as far back as March when the pandemic began to engulf the continent. I was in northern Italy at the time, reporting for my paper Bild on what was the first region in Europe to be hit hard by coronavirus. I saw for myself the military lorries in Bergamo transporting coffins to mass graves, and I will not soon forget it.

Alarmed at the horror that was unfolding, Germany’s health minister Jens Spahn ordered German manufacturers of PPE and other clinical equipment to stop selling abroad. Understandably, Italy was shocked by the export ban and a chorus of EU commentators demanded ‘solidarity’.

Scarred by that experience, and ever desperate to portray herself as a pan-European, Chancellor Angela Merkel — who never wastes an opportunity to surrender her own country’s interests to those of the EU — handed over Germany’s vaccination policy to the European Commission.

It’s now all too clear that many Germans will die needlessly because of that decision and the desperately slow roll-out that has followed.

Stumbled
The Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, is known for her bossy, power-grabbing tendencies. These may have served her well in the closing weeks of the Brexit negotiations last month, but they have helped to plunge Europe into its vaccination crisis.

Over the summer, under Mrs von der Leyen and the Commission’s health chief, the Cypriot Stella Kyriakides, the EU made a series of devastating strategic errors. It ordered 300 million doses of a vaccine manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline-Sanofi, a drug that then stumbled in trials.

It spent the summer haggling over the price for the Pfizer/BioNTech jab, ordering sizeable shipments only in November. Britain, meanwhile, ordered 40 million doses of the same vaccine in July; America put in for 600 million.

Disgracefully, the EU has still not approved the ‘game-changing’ Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine — which is both cheap and can be stored in a standard refrigerator — that Britain began rolling out this week after securing 100 million doses. (I should acknowledge that yesterday the EU did approve another vaccine, manufactured by Moderna, on which Britain has yet to sign off.)

Though the EU has now signed contracts to buy six different vaccines, its regulators have approved just two. This terrible stasis will prove fatal — in every sense — for the EU’s population: time is running out for its healthcare systems as new and more infectious variants of the virus take hold.

Amid this chaos, it’s perhaps no surprise that some European lawmakers are desperately trying to shift the blame.

Mocked
Disgracefully, Belgium’s deputy prime minister, Petra De Sutter, accused other countries of using sub-standard vaccines. ‘The UK and Israel, as well as Russia and China, are vaccinating people with vaccines that are not of the same standard as the ones we use,’ she said this week.

Yes, the U.S. and the UK gained a head start by invoking emergency powers that mean drug manufacturers are less exposed should problems with a vaccine later surface. But that is the kind of rapid, vital and timely decision a sovereign country can make in a crisis.

It is impossible to make the same decision when you have 27 countries arguing with one another, all overseen by a remote and unaccountable bureaucracy in Brussels.

So what conclusions can we draw? First, nation states are far more effective in a crisis than unwieldy groupings of different countries.

But the most bitter irony for Europe is that the one foreign politician our liberal commentariat have most mocked for years — Boris Johnson — is also the one who acted swiftly and decisively when it came to securing the vaccines. The number of doses you have speaks for itself.

And it was the ‘sensible’ federalist Europeans who have failed so miserably.

Anyone who still doubts the wisdom of Brexit needs only to look at the vaccine chaos unfolding across the Channel — and think again

notimagain · 18/01/2021 07:39

Such an interesting read from a columnist with “Bild”, Germany’s biggest circulation paper.

Well yes, just as long as you're mindful of the Bild's political/editorial stance...

Bearfamily1010 · 18/01/2021 07:43

@Peregrina

It could then be argued that it's a pity the UK, which feels strongly about transporting live animals abroad is now no longer a member and can't lend its weight to introducing a ban.
That is a shame, but not as much a shame that the EU continues this cruel and terrible practice despite all scientific evidence. The EU are not even considering this issue, basically because it makes a lot of money.

This is a concrete benefit of the leaving the EU, and is well underway. There really is no argument against it.

sashagabadon · 18/01/2021 07:53

That’s interesting Sunflower and looks like a fair assessment. My Eire relatives are certainly looking at my Northern Ireland relatives with their first vaccinations done and dusted before Xmas with some envy at the moment.
Northern Ireland is doing brilliantly at the roll out.

jasjas1973 · 18/01/2021 08:34

The UK was not free to stop it, please educate yourself on this topic

You perhaps need to to read what i wrote.....

If the UK really wanted to ban live animal exports for slaughter, it would, any ECJ court case would be many years away, if at all

That is a shame, but not as much a shame that the EU continues this cruel and terrible practice despite all scientific evidence. The EU are not even considering this issue, basically because it makes a lot of money

So only UK animals matter?
..and you are fine with animal exports for breeding and restocking, that happens both ways, many 1000s of animals and across the EU far more.

This is a concrete benefit of the leaving the EU, and is well underway, There really is no argument against it

Nope, its a proposal, opposed by the NFU... nothing concrete.
Also, how do think countries that share land borders in the EU and NI/ROI will manage?

As i said a while ago, the answer for all of us and for the climate is to eat less meat, less animals slaughtered and less transported for any reason.

jasjas1973 · 18/01/2021 08:43

Germany’s health minister Jens Spahn ordered German manufacturers of PPE and other clinical equipment to stop selling abroad. Understandably, Italy was shocked by the export ban and a chorus of EU commentators demanded ‘solidarity’

Scarred by that experience, and ever desperate to portray herself as a pan-European, Chancellor Angela Merkel — who never wastes an opportunity to surrender her own country’s interests to those of the EU — handed over Germany’s vaccination policy to the European Commission

So Germany acting as a sovereign country handed over control to the EU ?

BILD has been described as "notorious for its mix of gossip, inflammatory language, and sensationalism" and as having a huge influence on German politicians.[4] Its nearest English-language stylistic and journalistic equivalent is often considered to be the British national newspaper The Sun, the second-highest-selling European tabloid newspaper, with which it shares a degree of rivalry

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