What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

[Elephant4]

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

"So to those very angry posters looking for an immediate list of economic benefits you will have to be patient."
Was that on the bus?

But it’s kind of hard to import raw materials if the country doesn’t have the natural resources in the first place?

The relevant question is not solely about what Brexit will deliver over 50 years. It is also where will the EU be in 50 years? It is not where we want to be.

This must be about the most stupid piece of claptrap spouted by Rees-Mogg and duly parrotted unthinkingly.

Things were going along quite nicely at the beginning of the 20th century for many. Which person in 1910 thought that by 1960 there would have been two gruelling world wars?

1910 Britain was at the centre of world wide empire. By 1960 most of it had gone.

Why waste that time fighting with remainers on Mumsnet?
There you go Misti, creating the echo chamber, right there. Essentially telling me to go away so you can only have people thinking the way you do on "your" thread.

Was that on the bus?

There was a vast swathe of Brexit voters that never even looked at the bus.

Much like we didnt believe remainer fear mongering. We do have a tariff free trade deal. LSE predictions for example were based this not being achievable. In fact they were based on everything that could go wrong with Brexit going wrong.

There will be costs, but it wont be anywhere near as bad as on the remainer "bus".

@Peregrina

The relevant question is not solely about what Brexit will deliver over 50 years. It is also where will the EU be in 50 years? It is not where we want to be.

This must be about the most stupid piece of claptrap spouted by Rees-Mogg and duly parrotted unthinkingly.

Things were going along quite nicely at the beginning of the 20th century for many. Which person in 1910 thought that by 1960 there would have been two gruelling world wars?

1910 Britain was at the centre of world wide empire. By 1960 most of it had gone.

We are still members of NATO the last time I looked. I think the EU gives itself too much credit for keeping peace.

You just won’t listen will you? The UK doesn’t want ever closer political union. We want economic union. But the EU won’t allow you to have one without the other. So we are out. It’s over. You lost.

"So to those very angry posters looking for an immediate list of economic benefits you will have to be patient."

Yes, yes, yes, we must wait patiently but what did people vote for?
Nobody seems to know!

The UK doesn’t want ever closer political union. We want economic union. But the EU won’t allow you to have one without the other.

Yes it does.

That was the one thing the Cameron renegotiation of membership achieved:

1. It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.

docs.dpaq.de/10395-0216-euco-conclusions.pdf

This must be about the most stupid piece of claptrap spouted by Rees-Mogg and duly parrotted unthinkingly.

Why?

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make. I thought only Brexiteers invoked Dunkirk Spirit?

No we cannot predict the future. Covid has demonstrated this vividly. But you can set your politics with an eye to what you want in future.

Continuing the European Project meant every closer political ties with Europe. Wherever Europe chose to go. Regardless of whether that was in Britain's best interest or not.

You can go along with that. Or not. And no not everyone will agree, but I do think it is really important to give that serious consideration. The referendum was when Britain gave that consideration political will.

I don't think either side made their vote without considering where EU might be in the next 50 years.

^Yes it does.

That was the one thing the Cameron renegotiation of membership achieved:^

Bit of a hollow victory that.

If you are still answerable to The ECJ, the eu parliament and you can't even control who is in and out of your country, what difference does it make writing in a treaty that the UK doesn't want to integrate? We were integrating.

Yes, yes, yes, we must wait patiently but what did people vote for?

Not for, against. Against increasing European integration of sovereignty. Against a prospective federal Europe

@Hazelnutlatteplease

^Yes it does.

That was the one thing the Cameron renegotiation of membership achieved:^

Bit of a hollow victory that.

If you are still answerable to The ECJ, the eu parliament and you can't even control who is in and out of your country, what difference does it make writing in a treaty that the UK doesn't want to integrate? We were integrating.

It was significant, and added to the UK’s other (often unique) opt outs, but went underreported at the time.

And don’t forget we elected MPs to the EU Parliament, had UK judges sitting on the European Courts and nominated our own EU Commissioner. The UK was not a victim.

I am not sure why people have difficulty understanding that you can't predict 50 years ahead but declare that by then we will see benefits.

BTW NATO didn't exist in 1910 or 1939.
I don't recall mentioning Dunkirk either.

I will repeat that Rees-Mogg talks claptrap. One thing I can be sure of is that I will be dead in 50 years time - unless I turn into one of the world's oldest women, and there is a good chance that Rees-Mogg will be too.

And yes the UK had integrated to an extent, given that one of the founding principles of the Treaty of Rome was an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe. We signed up for that in 1973.

It was significant

Why was it significant? What realistically could UK do if the European Parliament decided further integration was the way to go? Perhaps we could say we no longer wanted to be a part of it.... have a vote... hang on a sec...

We signed up for that in 1973
No. They believed they voted for a trading block. They did not vote for ever increasing integration. Why many of that generation felt so strongly about the referendum. Essentially they felt misled and that they had to right a wrong they created.

you can't predict 50 years ahead but declare that by then we will see benefits.

It's called hope.

If we’d had a Referendum on the Maastricht Treaty then we would have given our consent to what the EU looks like today. Freedom of movement and ever closer political union. John Major pushed it through with help from Heseltine and Ken Clarke without proper consent. Now we find ourselves out of the EU altogether. Only have themselves to blame.

No. They believed they voted for a trading block

I am quite sure that Ted Heath knew what he was signing up for. Google the information published at the time.

We did have a full part in the EU, we even ran to a President of the European Commission. The Single Market was largely an idea of Margaret Thatcher's. But Cameron was more bothered about the Eurosceptics in his party and chose to opt out of pro-actively taking part.

Why many of that generation felt so strongly about the referendum.

Why many of that generation, which is mine, barely gave it a moments thought. In all the years since 1973 I cannot remember anyone having a conversation about the EEC/EU.

I gained the motivation to apply for citizenship in the EU country where I have lived for 17years.
No way am I happy to be considered a 3rd country national.

I believe that the UK Government has now given more rights to Irish citizens resident in the UK than it has to its own. That's very good for the Irish, but not so good that UK citizens are second class in their own country.

In all the years since 1973 I cannot remember anyone having a conversation about the EEC/EU.

Really? Noone you knew discussed the impact of Maastricht, of the Euro, both negative and positive. Or the impact of European integration especially at the Greek Crisis. Noone you knew went or took their kids to the European Parliament to understand it better?

Scoop...Britain faces dearer electricity and occasional black-outs if it bans EU fishing boats from its waters after 2026. This de facto power over the UK power market is handed to the EU in the post-Brexit deal which MP’s will wave almost unread through parliament today

From John Lichfield (veteran British reporter on European matters, who has a particular personal interest in fish).

So much for getting back all the fish. No wonder we have a bunch of sore winners on here.

I don't know anyone except myself and one other who has ever been to any Parliament. One the Referendum was called I heard people talking about Greece. I don't recall any discussion about Maastricht.
It really wasn't on people's radar much. Day to day issues were.

But your statement was that 'many of that generation' and since I am pretty sure you weren't around then, I don't think you know that just as many didn't agree with your Eurosceptic stance. Polls taken at the time of the Referendum show that only about 10% of the population gave the EU much thought.

Actually may statement about visiting Parliament is no longer true. After 2016 I got actively involved in local politics so I do know people who have visited Parliament and work there, and do know my own MP.

I do know people who have visited the EU parliament. It was on our families radar all through growing up. Good and bad. Masttrict was deeply controversial. The political debates between my parents and grandparents at Christmas were legendary. I was given a celebratory Euro at the introduction of the Euro. We as a family were talking about the role of the EU/European bank/ single currency on the Greek Crisis.

Everyone I know of that generation has an opinion, whether they agree or not. I'm just amazed you don't know anyone who was discussing it. It was considered a day to day concern

Sore losers central here.