What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

[Elephant4]

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

What have we gained ?

We have lost the interviews and correspondents outside Parliament being heckled by the twat with the megaphone shouting " stop Brexit " lucky he could afford to be there all that time

@billysboy

What have we gained ?

We have lost the interviews and correspondents outside Parliament being heckled by the twat with the megaphone shouting " stop Brexit " lucky he could afford to be there all that time

Seriously, if that is the only thing you can come up with, I despair.

That'll be a fascinating "next" book Mistigri, all about how you can ask people the same question repeatedly, reject the answer, call people thick/racist/stupid, then complain when they don't want to play ball and try to turn that back into an insult about that. Truly riveting stuff.

Oh Top, why so angry? Parliament is literally about to pass the bill you've spent four years dreaming about, and here you are getting all het up about the fact that remainers still don't agree with you, and still know how to push your buttons.

Go have a celebratory Buck's Fizz or something. You won! Get over it!

We are tied to EU regulations with this deal, of course we can choice not too (as we could before) but as before there will be consequences in imposition of Tariffs
Quite. But actually unpack that. If you are a remainer this is a good result, frictionless tariff free trade. European employment rights etc maintained. But we can if we want. For some of us Brexiteers that is good enough
The cost of doing business will lead to both sides doing less trade, already happened in a sector i am interested in, Germany companies now cannot competitively ship to UK, less work for UK importer, less jobs....Higher prices for us.

But look what the reborn Triumph factory has done whilst IN the EU
And whose to say we can't do better out the EU? Loss of expertise has as much to do with the removal of technical colleges as anything else
Nothing to do with the EU then.......it took John Bloor decades to design a competitive m/c, so look at how long it has taken Hyundai to become a serious competitor? despite 100s of billions of investment in a country renowned for engineering.

The UK could have had a global student exchange scheme whilst still in the EU, indeed many Uni's have their own schemes, usually with American universities
Then why are we mourning the loss of Erasmus?

Nothing to replace it with, the costs of going to the US is huge and the US is hardly the best place for language students.
A uk student can pop home easily when studying in europe, can't if in Colorado.
I hope that much like the EHIC replacement, the GHIC, Erasmus replacement will actually be the same only a G for Global stuck in front of it.

customs forms, rules of origin, SPS checks, and virtually nothing on services for instance.

To me this is a low cost for the ever closer creep of Federal Europe

To me this is a low cost for the ever closer creep of Federal Europe

This is absolutely fair, as long as you are honest that there are costs, and that there will be losers due to those costs - like the leave voting eel man who was all over social media yesterday. The problem is that no one was honest with him and it's possible that it will cost him his business, and his employees their jobs.

I've read this thread to the end but none the wiser.

I think that the majority of Remainers want to be pragmatic and hear about the benefits of Brexit. There are a minority who want to rejoin but for now the majority want to get on with things and find out more about who might benefit bar wealthy hedge fund managers.

Of course some of the benefits won't be obvious for decades but there must be short-term benefits too? I certainly don't know if the new scheme will be better than CAP or whether immigration from non-EU countries will benefit us more? I believe that the trade deals that we have negotiated are equal to or less than the trade deals we had via EU membership but happy to be corrected.

What pragmatic Remainers are looking for is reasons or stories of people who will benefit from Brexit. It won't be the NHS and we are told that immigration isn't a major reason to vote Leave so it's hard to see who will benefit. I find it hard to believe that "sticking it to Cameron" was driving enough people? Is it because the people who will benefit most live in a different corner of the UK to me? 🤷‍♀️

@Hazelnutlatteplease

customs forms, rules of origin, SPS checks, and virtually nothing on services for instance.

To me this is a low cost for the ever closer creep of Federal Europe

Thats a valid reason, so long as you are prepared to lose your job over the reduction in trade and pay higher prices for imports.

I love the idea of the UK as a sovereign country, with values and standards that we can all be proud of.
But we live in the modern world, uk isn't the power it used to be, so we have to make compromises, be it to the UN, NATO and free trade.
We had the opt outs from more federalisation and knowing first hand what a proud and nationalistic country France is, i think we had little to fear.

But you can at least see that it’s not frictionless trade - it’s a bare bones FTA that erects trade barriers.

Misti, I am genuinely interested and concerned about the creation of echo chambers and polarisation of opinion in society. Feel no sense of responsibility about the fact that Remainers don't agree with me and no need to explain myself, although I am bothered that so many people are so upset, we do have to mend that somehow. It just seems very odd to think you are cleverly trolling by accusing the "opposite side" of the things you yourself have been guilty of over the past several years. But obviously, if that's what you've gotta do to feel whole right now (or "get over it", if you will), then fill your boots.

^US is hardly the best place for language students.
A uk student can pop home easily when studying in europe,^
If anything (slightly controversial) we need our language students studying Chinese or Indian. Both of which are both widely spoken either as a first or second language. The simple fact is English (or actually American) is still the most widely spoken language. Purely in worldwide communication terms, i wonder if European languages are becoming less valuable.

Higher prices for us.

Greater incentive therefore to manufacture British. Maybe. We'll see

I hope that much like the EHIC replacement, the GHIC, Erasmus replacement will actually be the same only a G for Global stuck in front of it.
That would be ideal. Best of all worlds

And yet, Top, here you are, fighting the same old fight. Nothing you or I say here will make Brexit any better, and shit gets real starting at 11pm on Thursday.

The problem you have is that the deal isn't (objectively) a great deal, albeit actually doing a deal was an achievement in some respects. Now you have to deal with the reality of it. Fishing communities are already unhappy and it won't be long before other stakeholders realise they have been shafted.

Remember the euphoria about the withdrawal agreement? Didn't last, did it? That's why I'm so astonished that brexiteurs can't take their wins and enjoy them. You probably haven't got long to savour it before it goes sour. Why waste that time fighting with remainers on Mumsnet? Open a bottle, toast your sovereignty, drown your disappointment over fish, and gird your loins for the next battle.

This is absolutely fair, as long as you are honest that there are costs, and that there will be losers due to those costs

Yes. Absolutely. Never believed there wouldn't be costs. But to be fair I'm absolutely not on the front line of the suffering, our biggest problem was likely
to be higher food costs. And loss of EHIC may have made travelling in Europe impossible due to travel insurance for DS. But I still think these costs worth paying.

Last minute trade deal was entirely unsurprising. I'm actually surprised this is as good as it seems to be.

Fishing communities are already unhappy

Can you elucidate on this please? I have seen this and it was mentioned by MPs in houses of parliament today? but none is explaining why. Is this to do with the difference between Scottish and English channel fishing?

As I understand it, fishing rights is better than under the Chequers deal and has the potential to be better in the future. I would like to understand the problems better.

Would you like to explain what you mean by Indian? Try doing a very quick google to find out what an ill informed statement that is.

Greater incentive therefore to manufacture British. Maybe. We'll see

Given that the UK is the ninth largest manufacturer in the world, I’m always a bit mystified about claims that the UK doesn’t make stuff anymore.

Although given that we’ve just erected trade barriers with our largest market, and the volume of imported raw materials, I am sceptical that UK manufacturing will see many benefits.

Sorry, speaking in sweeping generalisations there.

You would have to be crazy - or to have been living in a cave for the last 5 years - to imagine that Brexit will spur a growth in uk manufacturing. It’s almost as if people think all the component parts are made, transported and sold in one country. Shades of Cuba there.

You would have to be crazy - or to have been living in a cave for the last 5 years

I can see why you would think that. But if the cost of imports go up, it is logical to think there might be more incentive to manufacture within the uk.

Given that the UK is the ninth largest manufacturer in the world, I’m always a bit mystified about claims that the UK doesn’t make stuff anymore.

I wonder how much 'stuff' is wholly British though and more likely to be adding value to raw materials from the rest of the world.

Peregrina it’s mind boggling isn’t it?
But not surprising sadly

The analogy I use for Brexit is that this was a divorce. The couple had lived together for years, in the main happy but had grown apart over where they each wanted to go in the future. One side was happy just with a trading bloc. The other side wanted a closer political union. Despite trying to compromise over many decades ultimately there was not going to be that happy relationship into the future. It’s not a perfect analogy as clearly the side wanting the divorce was not 100% behind it (52/48) but that’s how democracy worked in this case.
Tell me any divorce where there is an immediate financial benefit? In this case the initial benefit is to retain near parity of the economic benefits (despite the “wife/EU” wanting to keep the house, have half of the pension and sole custody over the dog and kids). In the short term the benefit is the opportunity to regain our sovereignty. It is also important to know where the EU is going. It is not where we want to go, into ever closer political union. You really have seen nothing yet on this. The relevant question is not solely about what Brexit will deliver over 50 years. It is also where will the EU be in 50 years? It is not where we want to be.

So to those very angry posters looking for an immediate list of economic benefits you will have to be patient. The current deal protects your rights. It probably also protects them well into the future due to the tariff penalty structure for diverging. We will save money from annual contributions but clearly there has been a short term price to pay as we build our own infrastructure and controls. This is the equivalent to having to buy your own house because the “wife/EU” has kept the family home. The thing with a divorce is also that you rarely get what you deserve. The UK built up billions of pounds of joint assets in the EU. Did we get given our share of these back? Don’t kid me.. The UK has walked away amicably with as fair an economic settlement as possible. We still “love” the EU. We shared some great memories and had a couple of kids and a dog and a lovely house. But we grew apart over the biggest issues which we could no longer agree on.

Well, yes, because the term “manufacturing” covers such a wide range - vehicles, food and drink, machinery, chemicals, electronics etc. So a lot of imported raw materials and components.

So a lot of imported raw materials and components

I think many of us would like to see as much of that supply chain being bought within GB borders as is possible.