What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

[Elephant4]

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

Given how the UK Government treated the Windrush generation I wouldn't be too worried about whether they have offered more to EU citizens - they will ignore it if it suits.

Well one look at the paltry number of EU nationals who have been removed from the UK for not fulfilling the requirements to stay (and only then it's been with repeat criminal offenders) will show you that that just isn't true. Although let's hope they toughen up in future. Now FOM is over they will know when someone outstays their visa free allowance, the same as the EU will know when we do.

Those who are so stupid to not have realised, perhaps were lulled into a false sense of security that the EU would reciprocate with 180/365 the same as the UK has offered EU citizens. Personally if I were negotiating this I would have insisted on reciprocity, country by country. I know we can't ask for a blanket exemption from the Schengen rules as a Third Country but why we ever felt we should give 180/365 when we wouldn't get it back is a mystery to me, and I think it should absolutely NOT have been offered to EU nationals

It wasn't offered to the EU, it is an arrangement we have with most all countries around the world, reciprocated or not.
BJ didn't care about 2nd home owners, just as he doesn't care about performing artists and what Brexit has done for them.

Fwiw we are allowed to stay in the Schengen zone for 180/365, just that it has to be taken either in 3 month blocks 6 months apart or a rolling max 90/180.

jaja okay semantics there but I take your point. And yes I am more than familiar with the Schengen rules. 90/180 is not at all comparable with 180/365, especially for second home owners.

We had the opportunity to NOT offer EU citizens 180/365 and to use that as leverage for discussion on better reciprocal terms with each country individually. That was a failing.

Sorry I meant 180/365 split into 90/180 on a rolling basis, obviously.

two lots of.

It really doesn't help to list all this minutiae.

It really doesn't help to cling to your willful blindness @Toptotoeunicolour.

@DioneTheDiabolist

It really doesn't help to list all this minutiae.

It really doesn't help to cling to your willful blindness @Toptotoeunicolour.

What, you mean my wilful blindness to the colour of passports and an ability to speed on French motorways? Yes, totally not bothered about any of that.

We had the opportunity to NOT offer EU citizens 180/365 and to use that as leverage for discussion on better reciprocal terms with each country individually. That was a failing

Even a 180/365 for 2nd home owners etc and those who have seen their dreams dashed, isn't much really.

Many 2nd home owners voted for Brexit, i know 2 of them! they believed the lies told by Johnson et al that nothing would change, they need our tourism.

BJ told the commons we'd still be able to live work, love and study in the EU as before.... whilst technically true, its considerably harder & in many cases, impossible.

@bellinisurge

Trouble is that real people live with real minutiae. I know it's boring for you.

I can assure you I am a real person Bellini.

Even a 180/365 for 2nd home owners etc and those who have seen their dreams dashed, isn't much really.

Well they couldn't stay more than 183 days anyway, unless they wanted to pay their taxes in that country instead of the UK. Isn't that the case?

he doesn't care about performing artists and what

So how are performing artists going to suffer as a result of Brexit?

Your willful blindness to problems such as empty shelves @Toptotoeunicolour.

Haven't you been following? Restrictions on gaining visas to go the EU. Initially spun as 'the EU wouldn't give musicians 90 day visas, wail, wail nasty EU' now shown to be because Priti Patel wasn't prepared to let EU musicians come here on 90 day visas.

So this will affect not just musicians in classical orchestras but the young people in bands and folk groups who would have travelled freely and done gigs in the EU.

So how are performing artists going to suffer as a result of Brexit?

The same way second home owners and frequent business travellers will suffer. They'll have to go to the embassy to pay for a 4-6 month visa (99 quid) and show that they have sufficient funds and travel insurance for their trip.

Which is what they already have to do if they want to go on tour outside of Europe.

Well they couldn't stay more than 183 days anyway, unless they wanted to pay their taxes in that country instead of the UK. Isn't that the case?

They used to be able to come and go and, so as not on benefits, could stay longer, certainly that was the practice.

Nr neighbours, used to go to Spain over winter, they can't now and still go to europe in the summer for hols.

Oh sorry, ignore my last post, of course musicians will be working so it's different.

So you're upset that Patel isn't being accommodating enough to foreign musicians and performers when the EU is requiring visas for UK artists to work in the EU? Why would it be so upsetting for you for the UK to reciprocate in the face of such deliberate obstinance?

So this will affect not just musicians in classical orchestras but the young people in bands and folk groups who would have travelled freely and done gigs in the EU

So what you're saying is: Brexit is awful because some people will be needing some documents in future if they want to perform in any of the EU member states just as they already do if they want to do it in The US or Australia etc?

You may need to do more to convince people that a bit of paperwork for musicians and actors makes strengthening this country's sovereign independence such a mistake.

The 'practice' was one thing, the actual tax rules were another altogether.

As I said, no-one used to check because of FOM. Now they wil check. If you stay more than 183 days in 365 (evenif not in one lump) you are automatically considered a tax resident, I am pretty sure of it.

It's just been ignored by many so far and they are properly pissed off that it won't be ignored in future.

The same way second home owners and frequent business travellers will suffer. They'll have to go to the embassy to pay for a 4-6 month visa (99 quid) and show that they have sufficient funds and travel insurance for their trip

You can't keep applying for that visa and its not travel insurance you need but medical insurance, that can be quite expensive and with pre existing chronic, may not be possible.

However, as this is a thread about the gains, where are the benefits for these people?

Jaja* they can, but they will need a 4-6 month visa which is separate to their Schengen allowances. But they still should not stay for more than 183 days in any year without submitting a tax return.

UK/France had a double tax agreement, tax paid in one country meant tax didn't need to be paid in the other.

BTW, you know that the EU is proposing to introduce a Europe-wide law that all copyright on creative material (films, books, music, the lot) is automatically transferred to the EU on the death of the artist, do you?

yes I meant medical insurance for travel purposes, sorry.

What do you mean you can't 'keep' applying? You can apply once a year. And still use your Schengen allowance the rest of the year. Divvy up the time as you see fit. But as I said, regardless of Brexit you should not be staying for more than 183 days in any one year without declaring your global income to the taxman.

But you could spend up to six months in one EU country on a visa, then use your Schengen days to go to others.