What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

[Elephant4]

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

If you pay tax in the UK, you do not have to pay tax in France, if you don't pay tax in the uk, you pay it france, which is is quite logical, tax can't be avoided by having a 2nd home.

Otherwise, we'd all have done it!

jaja you still have to submit it though.

I have medical insurance which I maintain annually for visiting France where I have relatives and friends. It costs me, but it's the responsible thing to do. Why should the French taxpayer be expected to foot the bill for any treatment I might need?

Sorry JasJas have been reading your name as JaJa all this time

Once you become a French resident some things fall outside of the double taxation treaty. Inheritance tax and capital gains tax for example.

If you have recently taken residency in France but rented out your UK home as a form of income or safety net in case you wish to return, when you eventually sell that house there will be CGT to pay in France as it is not your main residence. I believe this to be the case, anyway. Lots of 2nd home owners (especially retirees or people to work remotely and self employed) have been weighing up whether to switch their residency to France so their time there is not limited, and use their UK home as their 'second home'. Of course they can always come back to the UK for any amount of time.

In most cases it has not worked out financially viable to do so, all things considered.

I don't think the DTT means you don't pay any income tax in France though, just that you only pay the difference in France if the UK taxation is lower. Or something.

It's complicated. All I know is that many Brits living in France and Spain are pissed off because they've been working loopholes in the system very easily for years, constantly hedging their bets between the UK and France/Spain/Wherever and now they can't, and it's going to hit them in the pocket.

Toptotoeunicolour - Having a framework in place that is more closely connected to our people and less to the rest of the EU must, over time, suit out country better, allow us to respond more quickly and in a way more suited to our own situation,*

I suspect the devolved nations might have a different opinion on that.

@Jaypreen

So you're upset that Patel isn't being accommodating enough to foreign musicians and performers when the EU is requiring visas for UK artists to work in the EU? Why would it be so upsetting for you for the UK to reciprocate in the face of such deliberate obstinance?

So this will affect not just musicians in classical orchestras but the young people in bands and folk groups who would have travelled freely and done gigs in the EU

So what you're saying is: Brexit is awful because some people will be needing some documents in future if they want to perform in any of the EU member states just as they already do if they want to do it in The US or Australia etc?

You may need to do more to convince people that a bit of paperwork for musicians and actors makes strengthening this country's sovereign independence such a mistake.

And there we have it. Brexit interpretation to spin everything as the fault of the big, bad EU.

@Peregrina wrote Haven't you been following? Restrictions on gaining visas to go the EU. Initially spun as 'the EU wouldn't give musicians 90 day visas, wail, wail nasty EU' now shown to be because Priti Patel wasn't prepared to let EU musicians come here on 90 day visas.

So EU refuses the 90 day visas as Patel refused to reciprocate and you twist that to why would the UK allow EU musicians in when the EU are refusing UK ones? Quite an achievement.

100% typical of some Brexiters though.

BTW the UK has a lot of double taxation agreements with countries around the world. It is not HMRCs policy to tax the same income twice. This is absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

Johnson did find however, that the US authorities can chase their citizens for things which don't attract tax in the UK, like profits on the sale of your principle private residence.

@DioneTheDiabolist

Your willful blindness to problems such as empty shelves *@Toptotoeunicolour*.

Just to be clear, I was responding to KenDodd's goady post listing as "advantages" the usual blue passport bollocks which I can't imagine anyone cares about. I would not describe empty shelves as minutiae but I do think a temporary reduction in choice is relatively insignificant compared to long term improvements to the governance framework.

@Toptotoeunicolour - I do think a temporary reduction in choice is relatively insignificant compared to long term improvements to the governance framework.

Care to address my point above about the devolved nations potentially disagreeing with your notion Having a framework in place that is more closely connected to our people and less to the rest of the EU must, over time, suit out country better, allow us to respond more quickly and in a way more suited to our own situation,

Advantage of Brexit : collapse of the fishing industry means more food for puffins.

Advantage of Brexit : Irish lorries no longer using the land bridge means quieter roads in wales

Advantage of Brexit : LOTS AND LOTS of jobs for unelected bureaucrats dealing with all the extra new red tape

Advantage of Brexit : less imported food in the shops so dieting easier

Advantage of Brexit : less finance business in the UK so house prices will drop

What's not to like

Shops still full,
You ignored the empty shelves because you are closing your eyes to reality @Toptotoeunicolour.

[quote OchonAgusOchonO]**@Toptotoeunicolour* - I do think a temporary reduction in choice is relatively insignificant compared to long term improvements to the governance framework.*

Care to address my point above about the devolved nations potentially disagreeing with your notion Having a framework in place that is more closely connected to our people and less to the rest of the EU must, over time, suit out country better, allow us to respond more quickly and in a way more suited to our own situation,[/quote]
I was going to but decided it wasn't worth it. But since you are pressing me, I was going to say that they may well think that, and I hope they voted in line with their beliefs.

I think no-one voted in the referendum with a full view of the advantages/disadvantages of either result. My own view was formed on the basis of having lived and worked in several EU countries, and my professional experience - much like many other people's I expect. I fully recognise that I did not vote with any real understanding of (for example) the NI situation. There are gaps in everyone's knowledge. But given the numbers of people voting and the different experiences and expertise they all brought to the decision, it shouldn't matter that any one person's expertise is incomplete.

So just because a voter in one of the devolved nations may have a view different to mine (if indeed they do), that does not invalidate my vote or the result.

@DioneTheDiabolist

Shops still full, You ignored the empty shelves because you are closing your eyes to reality *@Toptotoeunicolour*.

Refer to my post 15.08.

At a guess, I would imagine that Ochon is referring to the Leadership of the Devolved nations, not individual voters. It most certainly ought to be a consideration of the Westminster Government that there is no such thing as 'Our Country' unless they acknowledge the reality that they don't care about Scotland, Wales and N Ireland.

Just to be clear, I was responding to KenDodd's goady post listing as "advantages" the usual blue passport bollocks which I can't imagine anyone cares about.
Farage does, hes said he won't rest until we've got blue passports again. My racist, leave voting mum cares. She said she wants the old passports with the windows on the front for name and passport number. I pointed out to her that we could have had passports exactly like that anytime we wanted, it was entirely up to us what our passport looks like. Unfortunately, there are also international agreements about the size, shape and format of passports (largely dictated by the US) so we could have a stupid heritage passports but no bugger will let you into their country with it.
And besides, if nobody cares about passport colour, as you claim, why are we changing them?
I suspect passports will actually become a much bigger issue over the years, and source of resentment. The colour change is basically all about nostalgia but most people under fifty will hardly remember the blue passports, they will be used to the purple passports that gave them the freedom of a whole continent. The new blue passports will by a real visual symbol of freedom taken away and we'll be able to do a lot less with them.

The new blue passports will by a real visual symbol of freedom taken away and we'll be able to do a lot less with them.
YUP

But I compared a New Blue passport with an old blue passport and believe it or not, they are exactly the same colour.

@Peregrina

At a guess, I would imagine that Ochon is referring to the Leadership of the Devolved nations, not individual voters. It most certainly ought to be a consideration of the Westminster Government that there is no such thing as 'Our Country' unless they acknowledge the reality that they don't care about Scotland, Wales and N Ireland.

Exactly Peregrina, I was referring to the notion of "our country" including the devolved nations.

I was referring to citizens and leaders of the devolved nations disagreeing with the notion that the westminister government would put together any framework that is more closely connected to the peoples of NI, Scotland and Wales. Any framework the current UK government puts together is likely to suit one country only (and probably only part of that country). And that country is not one of the devolved nations.

to long term improvements to the governance framework.

Are Brexiters aware that there is no one system of Governnance in the UK? If you mean England then say so.

They are welcome to disagree and were asked to vote on the basis of their beliefs. Do they think that the teeny tiny significance they have relative to the rest of the EU would have served them better? People's interests are generally best served by being close to the centre of power.

Was anybody else called a liar went they warned Brexit could very well affect food supplies? I know I was.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55641544

Do they think that the teeny tiny significance they have relative to the rest of the EU would have served them better? People's interests are generally best served by being close to the centre of power.
I do.
The EU made our government clean up our beaches and sea water. They were also making us clean up our air. I think our governance has been pretty shit in the UK although I suppose you could (actually very reasonably) argue that the people in the UK wanted dirty beaches and air, if they didn't they would have voted in parties willing to do something about it without being forced. You could also now argue that we like bee killing pesticides.

Re NI food supplies - I would expect that in the fullness of time those foodstuffs from Continental EU will go direct to Ireland and NI will be served from there. Why bother with form filling when you don't have to?

People's interests are generally best served by being close to the centre of power.
But as the UK is the most centralised country in Europe
and the current Government has stuck Henry VIII clauses into all recent legislation
the vast majority of residents of the United Kingdom are as far from power as they ever were
and we have lost a layer of accountability

Subsidiarity would be better than Sovereignty in the day to day lives of most people.

@ Toptotoeunicolour - They are welcome to disagree and were asked to vote on the basis of their beliefs.

So are you actually trying to claim the UK government give a shit about the devolved nations? You only have to look at the way NI has been treated throughout this to see that is not the case. Or the fact Scottish people were conned into voting no to the indy ref by assurances that staying the the UK was the only way to guarantee they would stay in the EU. It's all completely disingenuous saying they were offered the option to vote according to their beliefs when demographics mean that their vote was meaningless due to a much higher population in another of the countries in the union.

Do they think that the teeny tiny significance they have relative to the rest of the EU would have served them better? People's interests are generally best served by being close to the centre of power.

The UK government made it patently obvious they didn't give a crap about the GFA (c.f. the red lines May set, the IMB). The EU had compliance with the GFA as a red line. Do you really think breaking the GFA and returning to the violence of the past is in the best interests of the people of NI?