What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

[Elephant4]

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

And Covid didn't help either. It delayed negotiations getting wrapped up.
Equally, I can't help wondering if wed be in a much better position with covid if end of transition had been delayed for one year and the 30,000 Brexit civil servants had been put on track and trace. Likewise Brexit tied up thousands across the channel, in the middle of a deadly pandemic, who could have been better used elsewhere.

It shouldn't have been a Johnson willie waving contest, it should have been a negotiation. Hence it wasn't wrapped up in good time, because Johnson was arsing around. As he's arsed around with his Covid response.

I see no "tsunami of shit". Shops still full...

Speak for yourself @Toptotoeunicolour, in NI, we've gained a lot of empty space on the food shelves, fridges and freezers in our shops.

@XingMing

According to the Times today, British motorists will be harder to fine for traffic and speeding offences in the EU, because they won't be able to check the DVLA database.

All it means is that on spot payment will have to be made. I travelled 3 years ago to Spain with an Australian friend and she got stopped by the traffic guardia civil for speeding. When they saw her Australian passport, they asked for payment. My friend said she didn't have any cash and was told "we accept credit card". She paid. The other option was to accompany them to the police station and wait for a friend to come to the rescue with the money.

@DioneTheDiabolist , I'm afraid we've established that NI never counted for those people (yes, I am othering them because they are OTHER) . Apart from the the votes that the DUP brought to them.

Peregrina

Got to the bottom of the speeding fine thing. Apparently it depends on the system in the country the vehicle has come from. In the UK the onus is on the authorities to fine the driver, not the registered owner of the vehicle, within 14 days of the offence. Its virtually impossible to do this for foreign drivers.

In France (for example) there is no time limit and they fine the registered keeper of the vehicle irrespective of who was driving, so UK drivers have been low hanging fruit.

Its virtually impossible to do this for foreign drivers.

So the UK needs to sort its systems out, seems to be what you are saying. It can't be the EU stopping them, if the French were happily using UK vehicles as low hanging fruit, which I am quite sure they were.

So the UK needs to sort its systems out, seems to be what you are saying. It can't be the EU stopping them

I don't believe I said it was?

Going forward there would be little point in changing the system now as the data won't be shareable anyway.

At least we are even on that score now I suppose. The French sure will miss the revenue though. I don't have the figure to hand (can;t find the article) but the amount they've collected from UK drivers since 2017 is quite something.

At last! A positive, I can go faster on French motorways!

Gosh. Sarcasm.

Oh and fewer fish and eels killed, that's a positive to fish and eels. Bad for bees though, well be free to kill more of them with pesticides now.

Yes, it will just mean more on the spot fines.

60 million euros a year collected in France alone from UK drivers apparently just asked a friend who lives in France posted links to this story on FB.

Losing that won't go down well.

I went on a road trip to France about nine years ago, we went all over, it was great. Anyway, I got flashed on the speed camera a few times and worried I'd have a pile of tickets and points when I got home. I had a look on the internet when I got back and found that a EU wide (not all countries signed up) system of transferring fines and points was being set up that September, we had been on holiday in August so I breathed a big sigh of relief. I don't usually speed btw and have never had any points on my licence. I suppose were out of this system now are we? Also, what does this mean for other cross border crime? Any changes there?

its just a pity we didn't use our influence and input to change it from within
The truth of this is that our influence was limited (rightly) because we were not part of the Euro (also rightly) both in terms of the big decisions (selection of UvdL is an example) and the small (drafting of law, which did the rounds of the 27 countries over two years, changed at every venue without being reverified, then rushed through under pressure because time always ran out).
I would have loved to have seen this change from within, but we were never in a position to do it - France and Germany are the axis of power because of their financial union.

@FuriousWithTheNHS
Why are you furious with the NHS?

I don't know about other but I find it really hard to feel any sympathy for Leave voting fools like those below. And before anyone starts, I'm not calling all Leave voters fools, only the ones who've completely shot themselves in the foot by voting leave when the consequences for them were absolutely obvious. I don't think Jacob Rees-Mogg was a fool voting Leave, apparently he's done very well out of it.

www.indy100.com/news/brexit-expat-spain-eu-uk-b1785980?fbclid=IwAR0ZvUVhHCLUDbbzJlOihFaAey2aw06gI6nW5wVcZYxRQXiEkpjUwCfSRSM

Ken, that's for another thread.

I disagree that our influence was limited. We even once provided a President of the European Commission. The Tories who have spent 30 odd years banging on about Europe weren't interested in taking part, especially after 2010. It's no good saying that you don't want to play but then whining that you don't get to kick the ball.

However, Redwood is now whinging about Johnson's deal with respect to NI. Now remind me how he voted on May's deal which would have kept the whole of the UK in the CU, for the time being.

Anyway, back to the benefits.

1. We can speed in France.
2. We can now use bee killing pesticides .
3. Blue passports (?)

4... ok, struggling now... any ideas?

France and the UK undertook lengthy negotiations to introduce a reciprocal agreement on fines, reached one in March 2019 and then had to shelve it because of Brexit. Which some might suggest was a waste of UK taxpayers' money and civil servants' time and effort.

If UK drivers have been paying €60m/yr (the figure quoted in the article I read is between €30m and €60m), they have been driving like loons or not paying the initial fine.
Not all have been caught by the crap signage on the recent 80km/hr limit (which I wrote to my MP about, saying it needed to be flagged up to all drivers leaving cross-Channel ferries and the signs needed to be changed or at least some indication provided). Any freight company worth its salt sending drivers abroad should keep informed of such things, so if lorry drivers have been breaking that limit (and they do), then they have inevitably been fined.

One cause of high fines may be illicit races, like the Cannonball Run, according to Le Monde: rich "English" [sic] drivers crossing Europe at high speed (example cited is someone doing 178 km/hr on a main road with a 90km/hr limit, which I'm sure no one here condones.)
www.lemonde.fr/m-styles/article/2021/01/12/les-effets-collateraux-du-brexit-sur-les-pv_6065954_4497319.html

The worry is that the absence of fines post-Brexit will cause a rise in such events and therefore in road fatalities in France caused by UK drivers. They will be keen to renegotiate an agreement asap, like ones they have with Switzerland, for instance.

If there are no fines for UK drivers, the French will not only lose that revenue but also have to bear the cost of increased emergency aid, hospital care, etc. needed when speeding drivers cause accidents.
(And, yes, UK drivers speed a LOT on the autoroutes. They frequently belt past me and are not doing 5km/hr over the limit, but nearer 20km/hr.)

It's interesting that the UK system doesn't allow foreign drivers to be fined so easily. No comment.

@KenDodd
It really doesn't help to list all this minutiae.

The benefits will come from better, closer, more robust governance. Having a framework in place that is more closely connected to our people and less to the rest of the EU must, over time, suit out country better, allow us to respond more quickly and in a way more suited to our own situation, but the extent to which this becomes visible depends on the events which we have to respond to. In this sense, jasjas's comment upthread about Leavers voting on the basis of hopes/dreams/non-specifics is true, but should not be a criticism. One such example of the reality is vaccines - as pointed out above, individual member states are legally allowed to forge their own path on vaccines, but importantly, political, behind-the-scenes, pressure prevented this. Who wants to be a part of that nonsense? No wonder the Germans are fuming and God help the Irish with the new variant.
Even when it comes to the "official" process, your MEP vote is worth one in 400 million, your UK vote is worth one in 47 million. Why wouldn't you want the bigger say? (Not that I think MEPs have any power whatsoever - they really do not - as proven when they had a choice of one candidate when ratifying UvdL's selection - that was another piece of behind the scenes tit for tat nonsense between France and Germany).

It doesn't help You to listen to this minutiae, because it doesn't help your "Brexit is wonderful and it's all the fault of the Germans" diatribes.

The minutiae of Johnson's poor Brexit deal, after he swore we were going to get a great deal, are what's now causing real difficulties to NI and may well drive fishermen out of business.

Yes I agree that they should have seen this coming. Many did, actually. Same in France too. Many Brits (who didn't vote leave and are furious about it) have been complaining that they now have to apply for residency and integrate fully into the French system in order to be able to live there all year, (which is leaving them worse off financially and that's why they are reluctant to do it.) Even though France has made it very easy for them to do so and hasn't thrown anyone out to my knowledge, they now need to declare their income and pay French taxes on it. Trust me, no-one likes paying French taxes if they can help it.

They should have been doing this anyway - it's just that no-one ever checked. Many Brits in France and Spain have habitually stayed for more than six months a year (some barely leave and do not have a UK home to go to) and therefore should have been filing tax returns there, even if all their income came from the UK via pensions or working remotely.

Lots pick up casual work wherever they can, often for cash in hand and don't declare it either, so they have been able to remain beneath the radar for a long time, returning to the UK only when they need treatment on the NHS.

In my experience most of them are not so stupid (maybe in Spain but not in France) that they didn't realise the consequences of Brexit on their lifestyles - hence why those in France were so vociferously against it.

I know British micro-entrepreneurs who don't declare their full earnings in France to keep it below the threshold for higher taxes. But in order to show they can earn enough to stay they now need to declare more and therefore pay tax on more. They are thrilled, as you can imagine.

Things have finally caught up with them. They want the more relaxed work/life balance of France affords without having to pay dearly into the French system to get it.

Those who are so stupid to not have realised, perhaps were lulled into a false sense of security that the EU would reciprocate with 180/365 the same as the UK has offered EU citizens. Personally if I were negotiating this I would have insisted on reciprocity, country by country. I know we can't ask for a blanket exemption from the Schengen rules as a Third Country but why we ever felt we should give 180/365 when we wouldn't get it back is a mystery to me, and I think it should absolutely NOT have been offered to EU nationals.

Trouble is that real people live with real minutiae. I know it's boring for you.