The Silence is Deafening

[Crankley]

For the last however long, I have read threads and posts by Remainers stating confidently that the Prime Minister wanted a No Deal, would get a No Deal. Here are just a few quotes. Some Remainers may recognise their own predictions:

'He is going to give us No Deal and then fuck off into the sunset with millons in bungs from his crooked mates,'

'I'm pretty certain on no deal...'

'I fully expect a No Deal Brexit.'

'Bojo will 'deliver' no deal and then F off into the sunset'

'Boris Johnson and your disingenuous divs - How dare you try and spin a NoDeal'

'He was elected to not get a deal and to make his supporters feel good about the fact the had stuck it to the man (or something).'

There are lots more if you want them.

Now he has obtained a deal, where are all the threads by remainers? Do any have the the guts to hold up their hand up and say 'I was wrong'?

The fact that there was a vote on FPTP doesn't magically turn it into a correct form of representation.

Spot the parallel...?

Now, we can actually use our votes to remove, appoint, threaten the powers that be, instead of having them shrug and claim to be powerless. We have now given them power with no strings, and as such we can control them, with our votes."

Is this so? I recall that the voters of Oxford West and Abingdon voted Nicola Blackwood out in 2017. She immediately got bumped up to the Lords. Zak Goldsmith got kicked out by his electorate and duly got bumped up to the Lords also. Tell me how exactly we can get rid of these two people from Parliament, when they weren't wanted?
It's funny how 'the will of the people' didn't apply.

I will admit that the lazy excuse 'the EU won't let us' has now gone. Time for you Leavers to start telling Johnson what you want him to do for you.

* The fact that there was a vote on FPTP doesn't magically turn it into a correct form of representation

Just because a vote didn't go your way, doesn't make it wrong. We were given a choice, and we chose FPTP. Campaign for a new vote, if you,care so much.

I will admit that the lazy excuse 'the EU won't let us' has now gone. Time for you Leavers to start telling Johnson what you want him to do for you.

Yes, exactly. I hope that with actual influence available to the nation, people will become much more involved in politics. Elections can be about issues again, because now the parties can do what they promise, not just ask the EU.

As I said, delusional...

Not that they were actually stopped from doing what they promised. The word excuse means just that.

now the parties can do what they promise, not just ask the EU.

Does this mean that you believe the Tories were prevented from keeping their electoral promises by the EU?
And what's the "asking" process referred to here?

Hannibal, your lack of explanation speaks volumes.

No point in arguing with stupid.

Sure, Hannibal. You sounded so confident in your assessment of me, why are you now so coy??

We have now given them power with no strings, and as such we can control them, with our votes.

Oh dear.

I hope that with actual influence available to the nation, people will become much more involved in politics. Elections can be about issues again, because now the parties can do what they promise, not just ask the EU

The only think i can think of where the EU was used as an excuse was VAT on sanitary products.

Have many more examples?

On law and order, health, public services, transport, leisure, worker rights, unions etc etc we had all the control we could wish for... but the public voted for parties that cut all of these.

Under the new agreement, UK still has to allow EU tendering for public service contracts, so expect european companies to still build our power stations and make our trains....

If i remember correctly, GE's have always been about the issues... often on the NHS, Crime and taxation

I guess nobody wants to explain why being able to vote for your leaders is such a bad thing??

There were other excuses - my DB could quote chapter and verse on the working time directive. Although I think in that case they were too lazy to put forward the arguments that various industry spokespeople had suggested would improve it. It's suited the Tory narrative to say that we have been rule takers, wah, wah, wah. Well, now in our relationships with the EU we will be, and I trust they will like it.

@LurkingLeaver

I guess nobody wants to explain why being able to vote for your leaders is such a bad thing??

You are arguing a false premise, we vote in a party, who they then decide to become our leaders is down to unelected party members and or unions, again unelected byt the general public.

As far as i'm aware, we have always been able to vote in any party and MP we wish for without referring back to the EU.

She was an older woman and my DD asked (it was very early days) how she voted. The woman glanced over at the playground that was mostly being occupied by young British Asian families and said I voted to Leave because it's not like when I was growing up any more, too many immigrants.

The irony is that the vast majority of those British Asian families probably came over as a consequence of Commonwealth immigration and their presence had nothing to do with the EU. People like this lady are going to be sorely disappointed.

I am left leaning politically but, as I have lived in a series of overwhelmingly Tory voting areas for the last few decades, I have never actually voted 'for' my MPs/town/county Councillors due to FPTP.

The only elections in which my vote 'counted' and I could see representation of my political views were those for MEPs...

We had many opt outs in regard to the WTD but is anyone seriously going to argue workers should have a 2 break in any continuous 14 day period?
Or workers who have done a 13hr shift should not have an 11 hr break? btw both can be ut aside if the employer wishes.

@LurkingLeaver

I guess nobody wants to explain why being able to vote for your leaders is such a bad thing??

It's not a bad thing, it's an important part of democracy. Which is why we have these things every now and then called General Elections? We also voted for MEPs, a fact which a worrying number of people try to negate with "Well I never voted for any MEPs."

@LurkingLeaver

I will admit that the lazy excuse 'the EU won't let us' has now gone. Time for you Leavers to start telling Johnson what you want him to do for you.

Yes, exactly. I hope that with actual influence available to the nation, people will become much more involved in politics. Elections can be about issues again, because now the parties can do what they promise, not just ask the EU.

The EU has never stopped governments complying with manifesto commitments. It certainly wasn't the EU that has made Johnson do so many U-turns over the last 12 months. The reality is that this government has no interest in keeping its promises - it constantly makes entirely cynical calculations that it will get away with it because people will forget things like their breathtaking levels of corruption and incompetence. And given that there won't be an election for another four years, how on earth do you think we can make them properly accountable to us in the meantime? What actual influence do we have now that we didn't have previously?

UKIP got something like 13% of the vote in 2015, but only one seat. Then you were ok with the system, but now it's not going your way.....

No point in arguing with stupid

Nope, although it’s quite amusing seeing how naive people can get. Guess this is where saying we don’t need experts gets you.

Very interesting article from Bloomberg posted in one of the other threads. What an almighty fucking mess this is going to be.

Ok. Will leave it here then.

So, i answered your points and you haven't come back... instead move it on to a different subject all together lol!

But yes, pity UKIP didn't get more seats, they then would have been held up to scrutiny and their arguments, like yours would have folded like the pack cards they are.

Let's not forget that BoZo told us that all of our ills aren't the fault of Brussels.